Hi All, and whoever is moderating this list:
Can anyone on this forum fix the crazy reply to line that doesn't link
to 'PhD design list'.
Its a pain to delete the email of the author and replace it manually
with the list's address...

On with my elfin adventure on nuclear in the middle of the night/day,
whatever you call it..

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Filippo A. Salustri
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Karen, see embedded comments.
>
> On 21 March 2011 15:52, Karen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>>

>
> Forest fires are nature's way.  Fires happen all the time, not started
> by humans.  Sometimes, humans start bad fires, but nature recovers.
> Read up on the nature, frequency, and response of nature to forest
> fires.
> And yes, nuclear energy is containable.  This is evident from the
> history of nuclear energy.
>
>

I just knew before I shut my eyes to sleep that someone would say this because
I didn't specify 'Fire'. My apolgies for missing the explaination.

Forest fires are natural occurance. But what I was trying to say was that
fire is something we cannot control effectively despite our advancement
in technologies. Fires can be started by humans as they could be started by
nature. With climate change and weather conditions getting drier in places
in California and Australia, prepare for more fires.

And many fires are initiated by humans.
And often it is very hard to recover. Often at the risks of firefighters.
One typical example is the forest fire in California in the US about 2
years back.
It was outrageous. (see reference links below my sig.)
And notably the fire caused in LA was human induced too.


>
> Nuclear energy is not spontaneous at all.  The nuclear fuel is HIGHLY
> manufactured material.  Naturally occurring uranium is virtually
> harmless.  I have samples of pitchblende in my rock collection.  Have
> had since I was a boy.  I'm fine.


Naturally occurring uranium is harmless, but after human intervention, this can
become harmful. The same could be said about gun powder. Some cultures use
it for fire crackers, celebration; while some used it to blast their
enemies' heads off.

The hard truth is there are people who have uncanny ways of doing things.
They are all innovative. But the cause for concern is the potential and the
extent of danger that each element poses. It I hold uranium. or even harmless
amount of untouched hydrogen, I am fine. But if I hold just hydrogen
alone and played
with it in huge amounts under pressure, I get a hydrogen bomb. Human ingenuity
can come up with ideas. Just that it has to be on the right track.
Hydrogen is abundant.
Wrong use, and its a terrifying abundant gas used for massive destruction.


>
> We are imperfect beings.  Your demand for "100 percent" containment is
> not rational.  It can't be done.  Nature can't do it.  Humans can't do
> it.


True we are imperfect beings. And also due to our imperfection, we cannot also
be confident and sure that humans can design the best containment to fuels
that are potentially highly combustible. Both nature and humans cannot
ensure 100 percent
containment on any materials that we have to be totally safe. We need
precautions.
If we can prevent a disaster like Fukushima, and we are able to do now; I feel
we should take the precaution now like some of the EU countires are doing now.



>
> Forget about coal being depleted.  What about the health risks and
> GHGs from using coal as an energy source?


Should have added to say that I don't even want coal / fossil fuels and anything
that exhaust fumes.  Anyway I've just stated my stand on coal now at
late bedtime.

>
> As far as cost goes, I would like to know where you got your
> information on cost.  I expect that given the extremely tight control
> on nuclear plants, that the costs would be higher.  But are the costs
> that much higher - proportionally - than other high-tech / dangerous
> technology?  I ask out of ignorance.  Until I have numbers, I will not
> endorse one side or another of the argument.
>


I am trying to hunt for the stats. It comes with a large world map
showing where the
nuclear plants are. US has lots concentrated in the eastern part of
their country.
Then they show the costs of setting up a plant that is initially high
and covers itself
over a period of time. If memory doesn't fail me, in aroun 5-8 years
time, and its covered.
I should have recorded the link when I read it last week.
I will try to find it.



>
>>
>> In all, why should it be all fission?
>>
>
> Cuz that is, for now, the only game in town.


if thats the only game in town, then we are being utterly uncreative.
How can we be confined by that one source of energy alone when there
are clearly others at hand?

Its like talking about using only force to answer problems in the world.
There are many ways of doing it. Gandhi used peace for India to obtain
freedom for
his people. Singapore used to believe that merging with Malaysia as
the only way to
survive. People used to think that a country that has lots of natural
resources are the ones
which will prosper. It is via human creativity that makes our
prosperity and it is
humanity that keeps our society sustainable.
All these policies/inventions.ideas are man-made. We can change. For
that to change,
we must have guts to go into the unknown and venture. And fortunately for us,
we have other sources of energy that we can source. It may not be quick and cost
effective like nuclear, but we can design it with our expertise of new
forms of energy tio
answer problems. Policies to encourage smart use of energies. My blog
is about that.
If anyone's interested, its below my sig too.

The reality is do we need to really use
that much energy? Of course we don't. Thats another topic.

Its already 3:20 am here. I need to get some sleep. I only login an
hour ago. Shouldn't have.
But I did. So I might as well complete at least this email. I have
books to cover and notes to take
tomorrow.



>
>>
>> I'm fully awake...
>> Karen Fu
>>
>
> I hope you get a good night's rest.
> Try a shot of whiskey.  That always helps me. :-)
>


Thanks for the advise. But I don't drink.
I only use wines for culinary purposes.
And I don't take caffeine to wake me up.
I use excercise. It works.  : )

I'll look for the infographic and the stats and post later.

Karen Fu
elfin blog: http://daringtochange.wordpress.com
Other blogs can be traced from here. Your adventure may vary.

My sleepy links are for your reference. I shall endeavour to look for more.
But for now, let me have my slumber.... (thanks)

1. California Forest Fire, New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/us/30wildfires.html
2.What causes forest fires:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/what-causes-forest-fires.html
3. Human caused wildfires increases in Calif
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wildfires/2009-05-14-human-caused-wildfires-increasing_N.htm
4. Eyeing Japan, Countries reassess Nuclear Plans:
http://www.greatenergychallengeblog.com/blog/2011/03/15/eyeing-japan-countries-reassess-nuclear-plans/