medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Dr Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
[me]
>> there is no such dedicated outbuilding to be seen in the 17th c. "birds'
eye view" of St. Peter's of Cchartres, i don't think
>> http://ariadne.org/cc/abbeys/st-peter/1682drawing.jpg
>> but, that's post-Maurist, and who knows what the 12th c. situation was.
> By far the most usual location for a monastic chapter house was in the
eastern range of the cloister, on the ground floor, with the dormitory above
mmmm... so i was right and wrong at the same time (not an altogether unusual
situation): the "chapter house" was something of an independent building --but
one which was fully incorporated into the cloister and, sometimes at least,
the dormitory.
>(the English were rather flamboyant with their centralized chapter houses
east of the east cloister walk or, quite peculiarly, nestled between transept
and choir aisle, as at Ely).
freestanding, purpose-built buildings, i presume --and we're speaking of
Cathedral chapter "houses," which i take to be a horse of a different color
from monastic ones(even cathedral chapter/monastic ones, however you say that
inherently oxymoronic cheval rouge).
>Particularly lavish ones extended from the eastern range, but many were
accommodated within it. So, there very well could be a chapter house there at
St Peter's of Chartres.
as a *separate*, free-standing, purpose-built structure?
can you think of another suchlike example in a Benedictine institution in
France, Jim?
the fact that i cannot doesn't me that they didn't exist, simply that i can't
recall ever seeing one.
one which wasn't part of the cloister.
>You might recall, Christopher, that the chapter house of Chartres Cathedral,
cathedral chapter houses are an inherently different breed of fish.
to my way of thinking.
as are later, monastic or simi-monastic (e.g., Carthusian) ones.
>just east of the chevet, was surprisingly small for 72 canons; I'm not sure
whether there was an altar in it, but it did apparently contain a few burials,
despite a complete ban on burials within the cathedral itself; as well, in the
14th-century, the St Piat Chapel, with altar, was built above the chapter
house and served for "chapter masses".
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chartres_Cathedral_St_Piat_Chapel_SW_2007_08_31.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/alastairneil/image/110610270/original
i'm chagrined to say that i never gave much thought to the seeming continuity
in stonework between the lower "chapter house" chamber and the upper Chapel of
St. Piat.
i like the *windows* (i.e., the tracery of the windows above as 14th c., all
right, but i'll be jiggered if i can make out much of the (exterior)
architecture to be that late in date.
and can't make out any significant horizontal breaks in the stonework which
might suggest that the *whole* of the second floor was added later.
i just never looked at it carefully, i guess.
we might assume that the present structure --chapter house at least-- may well
have replaced a (n 11th c.) "chapter house," might we not?
i don't recall seeing any documents which speak of the destruction of the
Vidame's tower, which, presumably, accounted for the slight concavity in the
eastern wall of the
St. Piat structure.
c
c
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