medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Why not? The chapter house would have been the most convenient available
room.
>> assuming that there was such an one.
> I'm sure we've got C11 and early C12 examples in England. Boxgrove Priory
was Benedictine.
and, there might well be some in France, though i can't think of any
freestanding "house" among Benedictine institutions --but, so many of the
outbuildings have been "cleansed" that it's impossible to say.
there is no such dedicated outbuilding to be seen in the 17th c. "birds' eye
view" of St. Peter's of Cchartres, i don't think
http://ariadne.org/cc/abbeys/st-peter/1682drawing.jpg
but, that's post-Maurist, and who knows what the 12th c. situation was.
> I don't think Jim was restricting himself to particular countries - or
particular Orders.
no, he can speak for himself, i suppose, but it seems like a pretty Universal
Generalization, though one which did Mention Ste Croce.
> Actually, I wasn't including cathedrals - I think Priors were quite keen to
be buried in "their" cathedral, for some reason...
in the cathedral --but not in the "chapter house"
>> ergo, there was an altar in the place where the chapter was meeting ("in
capitulum") --wherever the hell that might have been.
>> ergo sum, the meeting either took place in [a chapel of] the church, or
there was an altar in the "chapter house[/room]" --or the meeting was held
before or
after the ceremony of "gift giving" occurred (in the church, "super altare
Sancti Petri," or wherever), and the record was made (and read out?) in the
chapter meeting (later)?
> I'm not quite sure what you are arguing - are you using your evidence for or
against altars,
preferably for both, but mainly *for* altars in whatever place the symbolic
gift-placing (super altare) occurred, obviously.
whether or not that was in the "chapter house"/room is a separate,
unanswerable question.
two separate meetings "in capitulum" is not out of the question, i suppose,
though not specifically mentioned in the charters (best i can recall).
>or for or against chapter houses?
oh, i've got nothing agin them, per se, as far as they go.
just that i have never seen a surviving one from a pre-13th c. Benedictine
house in France (or in a contemporary document which unequivocally mentions
their existence, much less a reference to anyone being buried in one).
doesn't mean that they didn't exist, of course.
c
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