medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I'm sorry, but this doesn't get us much further forward! I for one can't
see any connection between the Mass Exaltatio Sancti Crucis and prayers
for taking the cross.
As for the Missale Romanum, this was first printed in 1474. This edition
was edited for the Henry Bradshaw Society in 1899/1907 (volumes 17 &
33), and there is also a facsimile in print (Missalis Romani Editio
Princeps, Mediolani. Rome: 1996) But this doen't differ much from the
"Tridentine" Missal of 1570 (reissued with changes until 1962.) That is
because the "Missale Romanum" was the simplified Rite used by the Roman
Curia, rather than by any particular diocese (except Assisi, apparently.)
Most dioceses in Western Europe used a variant of the Roman Rite, while
employing their own "Use" (even the other Rites, Ambrosian, Mozarabic,
Gallican, are not that different.
To sum up and re-iterate: you need to define time and place if you are
looking for any particular liturgy.
John Briggs
On 01/12/2010 23:15, Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote:
>
> Dear Megan and others, Thank you for your responses. I'm trying to track
> references/resonances to prayers for taking the cross that are written in
> the 12th and 13th century. I'm so used to dealing with individual
> manuscripts for individual places that the idea of a "printed source" is
> somewhat strange to me, but I imagine there was some sort of, if not
> standaradization, representative of some sort of received textual tradition
> that was fairly widely in use, if in various forms. The LaTrobe music
> website is extremely useful, and gives me *a* text, and I was just wondering
> if this was *the* text. LeTongeran traces the early roots of the (Roman)
> Mass set to the seventh and eighth centuries, and these texts in some form
> or another appear all over the place (in the Sacramentaries, in the RGP, and
> so forth), but I'm looking for somethign that represents the later form.
> So, the Missale Romanum - yes. But what? And I guess this is my question.
> The Missale Romanum that comes up in my library search appear of all dates -
> and I guess my question would have been more precise if I'd asked it this
> way: Where to medievalists go if they want a generally reliable indication
> of what the Roman mass tradition (specifically) was for a particular feast.
> In the same time-saving way that we all go to the DouayRheims Bible to get a
> quick read on the Vulgate Bible, can one go to the 1964 printing of the
> Missale Romanum and expect some relationship to the medieval text, or, if
> not, is there an edition of the Medieval MIssale Romanum that is standard
> and I don't know about? (I know about Dijk, anyhow).
>
> This is a question revealing all levels of ignorance, I fear, but I hope the
> list will forgive me.
> At least, the Missale Romanum of 1672 is available through EEOB. Its a
> start.
>
> Thanks for any more thoughts, and for all patience in getting this far.
> cecilia
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Megan McLaughlin<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Cecilia--You will need to be a bit more specific about what you're
>> looking for, if you want anything useful out of us. First of all--what
>> period are we talking about? Presumably, given your interests, it would be
>> later middle ages? If so, the Missale Romanum would give you the prayer and
>> chant texts that would have been used in many (although, of course, not all)
>> places. If you have a particular city or religious institution in mind,
>> there may very well be published liturgical texts from that place that would
>> be more helpful. Give us some hints and we'll run with it . . .
>>
>> Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a question that I'm horrified to find myself not knowing the answer
>>> to. Before I ask it, let me say I am the *first* one to acknowledge that
>>> liturgical practice was widely variant and always localized. So, this is
>>> for a "thumbnail", not a definitive response for a particular time and
>>> place.
>>>
>>> That said, if I wanted to find the text(s) for the Mass for the Exaltation
>>> of the Holy Cross, and then the Mass for the Invention of the Holy Cross, as
>>> it was PROBABLY or APPROXIMATELY celebrated in the Middle Ages in, say,
>>> Church X, in Basic City Y, where would I go?
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