Same here!
===============================================
Dr Vassilis Monastiriotis
Hellenic Observatory, European Institute, LSE
email: [log in to unmask]
===============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: 02 September 2010 16:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
I was going to say the same. Now I have
Jonathan Rosenhead
London School of Economics
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Nick Clark
Sent: 02 September 2010 16:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
I agree with David - and would have said the same earlier if I had
received the original e-mail. This seems to me to be a particularly bad
time to be retreating into blandness.
Nick Clark
Senior Research Fellow
Working Lives Research Institute
London Metropolitan University
31 Jewry Street
London
EC3N 2EY
+44 (0)207 320 3019
www.workinglives.org
Professor David Gordon wrote, On 02/09/2010 15:10:
> Dear David
>
> Thank you for the clarification.
>
> If the new wording is adopted then I presume that Radstats will no
> longer aim to use of statistics 'as part of campaigns for progressive
> social change' or in 'helping build a more free, democratic and
> egalitarian society' or continue to be interested in 'The power
> structures within which statistical and research workers are employed
> and which control the work and how it is used', etc.
>
> What then is the point of Radsats? and how would it differ in any
> substantial way from the Royal Statistical Society? If Radical
> Statistics is no longer 'radical' why should it not just wind itself
> up and merge with some professional and/or academic organisation?
>
> What part of the proposed text does the Troika believe to be
> 'radical'? I am unclear why the Troika seems to be proposing to remove
> most of what is 'radical' from the aims of 'Radical Statistics'? Why
> is a new 'mission statement' needed?
>
> I would personally prefer to keep the old text rather than replace it
> with the new proposal.
>
> Regards
>
> David Gordon
>
>
> --On 02 September 2010 14:49 +0100 David Manley
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Dear David,
>>
>> At present, the Troika have not got plans to change the second
>> statement,
>> just the first. I will include your response in the discussions that
the
>> Troika have once all the responses have been collated!
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> David.
>>
>> ___________________________________________________
>>
>> Dr. David Manley
>> Centre for Housing Research
>> School of Geography and Geosciences
>> University of St Andrews
>>
>> Irvine Building, North Street, St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9AL
>> Tel: ++44(0)1334 462383, Fax: ++44(0)1334463949, Email:
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Links: ESRC Seminar Series: www.neighbourhoodeffects.org
>> School of Geography and Geosciences: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gg
>> Centre for Housing Research: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/chr
>>
>>
>>
>> The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland : No
>> SC013532
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Professor David Gordon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 02 September 2010 14:48
>> To: David Manley
>> Cc: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
>>
>> Dear David
>>
>> Just to clarify, are the Troike proposing to delete the current 'What
is
>> Radical Statistics' statement (<http://www.radstats.org.uk/about.htm>
>> and
>> also below) and replace it with the new text in your e-mail (below)?
>>
>> The proposed text is fairly unobjectionable but it is not very
>> 'Radical', I would think that the Royal Statistical Society or even
the
>> Statistics Commission could also have the new text as their 'mission
>> statement'!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> David Gordon
>>
>> 'The Radical Statistics Group, usually abbreviated to Radstats, was
>> formed in 1975 as part of the radical science movement associated
with
>> the establishment of the British Society for Social Responsibility
in
>> Science (BSSRS).
>>
>> The researchers and statisticians who started Radstats shared a
common
>> concern about the political implications of their work and an
awareness
>> of the actual and potential misuse of statistics. Sadly, neither the
>> BSSRS nor other organizations affiliated to the BSSRS, survived the
18
>> years of Conservative rule from 1979 to 1997.
>>
>> RadStats is now independent of any other organisation. Members are
>> 'radical' in being committed to helping build a more free, democratic
>> and
>> egalitarian society. Members of Radstats are concerned at the extent
to
>> which official statistics reflect governmental rather than social
>> purposes. Our particular concerns are:
>>
>> * The mystifying use of technical language to disguise social
>> problems as technical ones
>> * The lack of control by the community over the aims of
statistical
>> investigations, the way these are conducted and the use of the
>> information produced
>> * The power structures within which statistical and research
workers
>> are employed and which control the work and how it is used
>> * The fragmentation of social problems into specialist fields,
>> obscuring connectedness
>>
>> Radstats members believe that statistics can be used as part of
>> campaigns
>> for progressive social change - just as they were used to support
>> measures that led to improvements in public health in the 19th
>> century.'
>>
>>
>> The Home page of the website also has the following statement
>>
>> 'We believe that statistics can be used to support radical campaigns
for
>> progressive social change. Statistics should inform, not drive
policies.
>> Social problems should not be disguised by technical language.'
>>
>> Is the Troika proposing to also replace this with the new text?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --On 01 September 2010 10:35 +0100 David Manley
<[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Radstat Members,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Those of you who were at the Annual Conference in February will
>>> remember
>>> that a proposal was put forward to change the wording of the
Radstats
>>> 'mission'. At the conference we were unable to agree on a new vision
>>> and the Troika (Along with a few others) were tasked with coming up
>>> with
>>> something suitable. After quite a bit of deliberation a we have
devised
>>> the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Radstats seeks to:
>>> * Expose the assumptions which underpin decisions about the
>>> collection, analysis and interpretation of statistics.
>>> * Ensure these assumptions are clearly and publicly documented in
>>> non-technical language and the statistics themselves should be
publicly
>>> available.
>>> * Promote the documentation of the ways in which statistics are
used
>>> to justify policy decisions and monitor policy implementation
>>> * Encourage the acceptance that the wide range of users of
statistics
>>> should have an influence on what is collected and how.
>>> * Enable statisticians and other data analysts to publish their
>>> analyses independently of employers and funders, irrespective of
>>> whether
>>> they work in government or other public sector organisations, or in
the
>>> academic, commercial or voluntary sector.
>>>
>>> If you agree that the new version is suitable then you need not do
>>> anything. If, however, you are not happy with the new wording, then
>>> please let the Troika know, and proposal an alternative. We would
>>> like to
>>> move foward with this quite quickly so please respond (if necessary)
by
>>> 15th September.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Dr. David Manley
>>>
>>> Centre for Housing Research
>>> School of Geography and Geosciences
>>> University of St Andrews
>>>
>>> Irvine Building, North Street, St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9AL
>>> Tel: ++44(0)1334 462383, Fax: ++44(0)1334463949, Email:
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> Links: ESRC Seminar Series: www.neighbourhoodeffects.org
>>> School of Geography and Geosciences: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gg
>>> Centre for Housing Research: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/chr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland :
No
>>> SC013532
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> Dave Gordon
>> Townsend Centre for International Poverty Research
>> University of Bristol
>> 8 Priory Road
>> Bristol BS8 1TZ, UK
>>
>> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
>> Tel: +44-(0)117-954 6761
>> Fax: +44-(0)117-954 6756
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> Dave Gordon
> Townsend Centre for International Poverty Research
> University of Bristol
> 8 Priory Road
> Bristol BS8 1TZ, UK
>
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
> Tel: +44-(0)117-954 6761
> Fax: +44-(0)117-954 6756
>
> ******************************************************
> Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
> message will go only to the sender of this message.
> If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
> 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
> to [log in to unmask]
> Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
> and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
> by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
> Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
> past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
> www.radstats.org.uk.
> *******************************************************
>
Companies Act 2006 : http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/companyinfo
******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by
subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past
issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3107 - Release Date: 09/01/10
18:34:00
Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic
communications disclaimer:
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/planningAndCorporatePolicy/legalandComp
lianceTeam/legal/disclaimer.htm
******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by
subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past
issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************
Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/planningAndCorporatePolicy/legalandComplianceTeam/legal/disclaimer.htm
******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************
|