Regarding: "the next article comes back with the same errors as the last"

I'd like to make only one brief point:

I agree that we authors' editors see this recurrent errors in "the English"
-- or whatever language. I do, though not across the board. I do see overall
English language improvement in some cases, usually (but not always) when
I've sent the person an English instructor to work on just that.) I do see
authors shedding bad habits if they're related to content reporting and
analysis -- for example, shedding the overuse of metalinguistic connectors
between paragraphs. I also see signs of greater knowledge of
discipline-specific phrasing, with authors inputting the type of phrasing
that has been negotiated on the editing of previous papers. (No, not
copy-paste writing.)

If other authors' editors don't see this kind of progress, it may be that
they're relying on "just correcting" the prose and sending it back? The use
of the word "proofreading" in this discussion implies that might be the
case.

However, I think it's unreasonable to expect authors to learn very much
about "the English" at a moment (for example) when their focus is on content
at a stressful moment of revising and writing a point-by-point letter for a
possibly controversial or difficult to publish paper. 

When an authors' editor takes an educational approach, as I do, English per
se is not the subject matter and so English improvement wouldn't be the
measure for evaluating learning.

I'd expect to see, over time, that an author's papers were being more
competently structured at draft stage, or that drafting and revising came
easier to that author--and that the author began to mentor others. The
"subject matter" of educationally oriented authors' editing covers things
like the form of papers and their parts, the processes of writing and
interacting with editors, choosing journals, and in some disciplines it
involves the processes of co-authoring. (Novice authors learning to elicit
feedback from and effectively interact with superiors over a manuscript,
handling statisticians' input, merging ideas of clinicians and engineers
(for example), etc. And if expert mentors are working with both the authors'
editor and the novice, the expert is modeling how to work with a language
editor. Things like that.)


Best wishes,
Mary Ellen

 

Mary Ellen Kerans
Translation & Editing - Writing & Education
Barcelona, Spain
Tel/Fax: 34 934 080997
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-----Original Message-----
From: European Association for the Teaching of Academic Writing -
discussions [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda McCloud-Bondoc
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Setting up a writing centre

Hi Paula,

Whew! This must be a hot topic because I've been approached by a number of
people in my institution (informally) about the possibility of providing
editing/proofreading services to graduate students. I've resisted any
suggestion that we use any of our limited resources for anything but
education, but my concern about this trend goes beyond use of resources.

 I agree with John that a writing centre can't be both a place where
education AND proofreading happens, especially if both services are directed
at students. If we offer proofreading, essentially the message we send to
students is that good writing really isn't the concern of the academy or a
necessary skill to acquire while you're there. Which could explain why I
recently had a student who phoned the writing center to ask if she could get
editing services. When I told her that our writing center would not edit but
WOULD teach her to edit her own work so she could clearly say what she meant
to say, she replied, "That's a really good idea, but frankly, I work, and I
don't have time to learn to write." 

Just some thoughts for what they're worth...
Linda


Linda McCloud-Bondoc
Write Site Coordinator
Office of the Vice President Academic

Athabasca University
1 University Drive
Athabasca, AB. 
Canada T9S 3A3
1-866-603-9521

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paula Haapanen" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:57:59 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: Re: Setting up a writing centre

Hi John,

thank you for ignoring my suggestion :)

Just as a quick update, I've received suggestions from about 5 different
colleagues and I'll be summarizing them here in the near future.
However, I want to say that I agree with John 100%.  Proofreading and
editing services have never ever been free at our university nor will
they ever be.  While we have one resident translator/proofreader, all
texts that go to her get charged to each faculty accordingly and the
money that pays for it comes out of the paper's project budget.  While
now slightly lower than commercial prices, everything is paid for
separately and I think that's going to continue. I also moonlight as a
proofreader and I charge whatever I like.  If I'm suckered into doing it
at a 'writing centre' then my prices might have to be knocked down :)

In fact, it was very poignant what John said about offloading work.  Our
poor translator/proofreader is overworked, which is one reason why our
dean prompted the initiative of creating some sort of support system.
Another reason is that the dean has jacked up the publication goal for
next year to over 200 publications in peer reviewed journals from
approximately 100 this year.  This is just one faculty - our
translator/proofreader (and whatever else we come up with, be it a
writing centre or something else) has to provide services to the whole
university.

To be fair, I think the dean is more on the side of cultivating
independence so the consultation, workshop, clinic, etc idea is high up
there but the unfortunate truth about all this is that not everyone
wants to be independent or is at a point in their language proficiency
that they can be independent and so the pay-per-paper service has to be
there too.

Hats off to Carlos at EARTH university though - they've incorporated the
learn/practice/consult/reflect/self-edit approach as a compulsory part
of their undergraduate program and to quote him loosely, it didn't take
much money but a lot of time.

More on that in the summary. However, if you have more suggestions, keep
them coming (to [log in to unmask]) 

Best wishes,
Paula

-----Original Message-----
From: European Association for the Teaching of Academic Writing -
discussions [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Harbord
Sent: 25. elokuuta 2010 10:27
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Setting up a writing centre

I'm going to ignore Paula's suggestion and reply directly to the list,
annoying other list members who probably don't want to read about
writing centres or anything related, but it is summer and I like to see
the list tick over.

It seems to me that a writing centre can have two fundamentally
different roles - either educational or faculty support. Most writing
centres in the US, as well as my own, sit firmly on the educational side
of the divide: their (our) aim is to help students learn how to write, a
final goal of which might be to get published later in their career.
What Paula is describing is more the second type, the purpose of which
is in large part not educational but supportive. I privately translate
and proofread scholars' work for publication and believe me, there is no
educational element - the next article comes back with the same errors
as the last (and the person who writes in German hasn't yet switched to
English, inspired by my work). I think a writing centre can be either of
these (though it would be very helpful to us all if we could agree on
two different names) but that if it tries to be both at once, there can
be problems. 

If you provide a service for 'researchers' (whether these are paid
faculty or also PhD students or possibly anyone who hopes to publish),
then if those people are not paying for that service they are likely to
offload as much work as they can onto the providers of the service. That
means, like one professor who is sending me stuff right now, that it can
be the most atrocious quality bordering on incomprehensible. Because
this person pays me out of her own pocket, she pays through the nose for
someone else to tidy up her work, so there is a limit to how much she
can afford. If the university provides the service, she can send any old
rubbish and it doesn't cost her a penny - in other words, the provision
of the service acts as a *disincentive* to learning. 

I'd say, yes, provide the educational parts - workshops, consultations
on macro features and other services where the service receiver is
present and putting in their time for free, but charge for the
proofreading and translation, and if you charge market rates, that will
cover most of your costs. 

Best,

John

>>> Paula Haapanen <[log in to unmask]> 19/8/10 11:48 >>>
Dear colleagues,

 

I am writing for advice on how to set up a writing centre. 

 

Our university is looking for solutions to improve our researchers'
chances of getting published.  In addition to the academic writing
courses that we already offer(which are not compulsory for every
student), I suggested that we consider establishing a writing centre.
This writing centre would, of course, serve the whole university and
should provide not only the teaching and mentoring of academic writing,
but possibly translation and proofreading services as well.  The idea is
that we use the English lecturers we already have (4) because there's
not an awful lot of money in the kitty to invest in this (or any other)
solution.  In other words, we're looking for a miracle here.

 

What kinds of experiences have you had? What things should be
considered? What kind of money are we talking about? What services
should be offered? Are there alternatives to a writing centre that might
be more feasible?  All suggestions would be most welcome.  

 

If you e-mailed me directly at [log in to unmask], I'm sure that
other subscribers to this list would breathe a sigh of relief but rest
assured, I'll send out a summary of the responses to the list in one
form or another.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

Best wishes,

Paula

 

**************************************
Paula Haapanen
Coordinating Lecturer - English
Language Centre
Lappeenranta University of Technology

PO Box 20
53851 Lappeenranta
Finland

Phone: + 358 (0)5 621 2213 (direct)



 

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