I agree entirely with Gren that geoscientists should be more involved and
visible to the community. Equally we have a responsibility as John says to
ensure that this is based on the best science we can manage. 

We as geoscientists have a key role to play in resource security (oil,
minerals, construction materials, water) and in providing a key component to
responsible development of these necessary resources through-out the
exploration to sequestration cycle plus our roles in seismic hazard and in a
wide field of geotechnics. Geology is central to our ability to continue to
live on this planet with the sort of population we now have and with the
standard of living expectations too which we all aspire. It is indeed these
needs that provide the drivers to fund the pure science for its own sake.

To perform the role and contribute successfully we have to engage with
society at large much more than we do now and as I said in my early post we
do have to make sure we match this with an appropriate responsibility in
what we say. We do have to look to other professions for good models of this
or we run the increasing risk of being the political and media football.

As I indicated we have to be very clear about the level of uncertainty in
our science and to clearly separate a) fact from b) interpretation and c)
opinion with the "error bars" in a way that is understandable by the
stakeholder. The traditional geo-science rough and tumble between an
internal closed group who all know the rules just isn't appropriate any
longer -- and makes us look either unprofessional or just plain stupid to
the outsider. 

We do need to up our game, and fast, if we are to avoid "Italian situations"
where good well intentioned geoscientists find themselves badly exposed. 


Alan



Dr Alan Gibbs
Director
Midland Valley Exploration
144 West George Street
Glasgow
G2 2HG
tel: 44 (0) 141 332 2681
fax: 44 (0) 141 332 6792


[log in to unmask]

www.mve.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Grenville Draper
Sent: 25 June 2010 00:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Wider thoughts on the italian situation

John

While I agree with you about the damage that shallow, business school
notions of accountability as adopted by (and often corrupt) politicians that
have undermined modern science, I disagree with your "scientific
isolationist" stance (I don't mean to be insulting, btw).

Since Earth is the only Planet we live on, we cannot separate our science
from society at large.  Society requires our services to provide the
resources required, and warn it of risks imposed on it by perfectly normal
geological processes. I don't think we have the choice of retreating to the
Ivory Tower.  Your "toxic mix" of science and politics is unavoidable in
fields such as seismology, hydrology, meteorloogy, volcanology, landslides
etc. and society at large provides funding for research in those areas.

The real tragedy is that there is no appreciation of society and its
political leaders of the importance of the geosciences until disaster and
catastrophe occur. After the Haiti earthquake  there was tremendous public
interest in the event and a thirst for explanations of what happened.  Being
close to the subject. I gave countless interviews to the media on the
subject and three public lectures.  It saddened me that it needed a
catastrophe of this magnitude to get society's attention, but it was also an
opportunity.  The neighboring Dominican Republic is equally if not at more,
at risk of seismic catastrophe. If we geoscientist push hard enough , we
might be able to get a seismic emergency plan to the attention of the
politicos. We are continuing to to this.

I agree that it science and politics are toxic, but anything in politics is
toxic.  In my opinion, it is unavoidable. But we have to engage. Society
gives us the money for research, so they want answers, and we have a duty to
to give it to them the answers that they want. 

John, in summary ,  I  think we ought to be MORE engaged in society.  I
always admire and am  amazed by the way the Astronomical community gets more
public and private support than us , even though there is no practical
impact on society. I think we need to do more.

Cheers


Gren



Grenville Draper
Professor, Department of Earth and Environment
Associate Director of Liberal Studies
Fellow of the FIU Honors College
Florida International University
Miami, FL 33199
305-348-3087
________________________________________
From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list
[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John F. Dewey
[[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: about an attack to Science in Italy

Sorry Umberto and colleagues, I accidentally pressed the SEND button
before finishing the email. I blame the very fine Amarone that I am
drinking this evening.

Dear Umberto,

Thank you for your thoughtful and reasoned analysis for which I am
very grateful in sorting out some of the confusion. I, also, would
like to know the location and qualifications of Matteo Levi. There is
a very distinguished and brilliant Italian Abruzzi film man of this
name. Could it be he?

Again,  when science, politics, and law become entangled, we have a
toxic mix. Alan Gibbs and Dennis Brown have hit the nail on the head.
When scientists are asked to give their "official" considered views
and opinion, they had better be very careful in what they say. They
would do well to keep out of making prognoses and trying to help the
cowboys that inhabit the halls of government. My advice is for
serious scientists to stick to serious science and to avoid the
seductive route to fine hotels, titles, and running things. Keep a
low profile and enjoy your science. Especially, do not become
involved in judging your fellow scientists, the modern trend in
international bureaucracy. Much of modern science is forgetting its
intellectual and scholarly roots.

Best wishes,
John Dewey
--

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