John, you've asked for comments from other languages, but may I add
something about the concept of authenticity?
Rather than a non-authentic genre, I called the thesis paper a "student
genre". It was authentic enough for students who made their way through the
system for many years in my day anyway -- through competitive examinations
and course work that required as many as 10 or 12 "five- to eight-page
papers" per semester (if a paper was a wee bit longer it had better be good
or your grade went down for trying to pass off fluff!). Not five paragraphs,
but perhaps I'm out of date.
It's authentic enough, I think for a young, developing person. The knowledge
that's being set out isn't being produced through research, though it might
be said that course readings constituted a small body of bibliograph
research. The knowledge is one's own awareness of the strength of one's
argument, whether it stands up to scrutiny. (Philosophy, history,
literature, sociology classes and more all require this and it was directly
relevant. In chemistry, we knew we had to do something else [were told to],
an IMRD format, but the discussion sections of our lab reports were less
hard for students who knew how to write thesis papers well. I suspect the
same was true for my fellow students who wrote problem-solution papers in
their engineering classes. What's true is that probably some students need
to have that spelled out for them.)
Also, if you extrapolate out from a thesis paper in higher-level academics,
such that the first paragraph becomes the first section of a longer paper (a
true thesis) in a field in which argument's the thing, it's a relevant
engouh genre if an academic system depends on that.
In fact, the writing of many short "thesis papers" (in my opinion) responds
to a young writer's need for an intellectually challenging but achievable
task. Short papers mean faster feedback from an expert reader too. In
university settings where I've worked (Spain), I've seen underdeveloped
writers being asked to do very long papers they're not ready for -- and I
think it's one reason they resort to copying and pasting (or translated
copy-paste). Students are even asked to write them in groups (less work for
the professors). Team writing is an authentic enough task in many fields,
but a more complex task than writing alone I think. If one writes well
alone, one can function better in a group.
In a school setting, I think it's legitimate to look for bridge genres like
the thesis paper, but an instructor familiar with the bigger picture of
real-life writing will be able to frame it appropriately so a student can
get a fast start later on.
Best,
Mary Ellen
Mary Ellen Kerans
Translation & Editing - Writing & Education
Barcelona, Spain
Tel/Fax: 34 934 080997
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-----Original Message-----
From: European Association for the Teaching of Academic Writing -
discussions [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Harbord
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 11:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Thesis Statement
Dear Colleagues,
I think James's uncertain response is quite helpful in reminding us
that a lot of the time we are preparing student to write for lecturers
in disciplines beyond English. Many such people, especially in the
social and hard sciences, don't have or understand the concept of a
thesis statement. Real papers in the social sciences involve (empirical)
enquiry, that is, they involve the identification of a question to which
we do not know the answer but would like to know it. Research or
analysis is then carried out in order to find an answer to that
question, which will be presented (often in the introduction) as
findings, rather than an argument, often using verbs like 'show' rather
than 'argue'. One can wangle it by saying that the argument is that the
these findings are the best answer to the question, but I think that is
probably rather post-hoc.
This discussion appeared on Wcenter not so long ago and I raised this
question and received the confirmation that, as James suggests, thesis
statements are a lot more common in the humanities than elsewhere. My
guess is that they are most common of all in English composition
classes, and migrate outwards, often undesiredly, from there. I have a
feeling, possibly a prejudice, that thesis statements are a feature of
non-authentic genres (eg. the 5-paragraph essay) that try to teach the
skills of argument without creating new knowledge. I'm not entirely
sure, beyond the humanities, whether teaching thesis statement writing
prepares students well for writing in the disciplines.
It would be interesting to hear from those who teach writing in
languages other than English how scholarly enquiry is framed in those
contexts. I know for example that in French academic writing there is
something called a 'problematique' which drives the enquiry; I am told
that German may have something similar, but I don't know much more in
either case.
Best,
John
>>> James Hartley <[log in to unmask]> 17/6/10 13:38 >>>
Hi Alex
I am afraid that I am unfamiliar with the idea of a thesis statement or
what
a good one is. Perhaps the term is used more in the Arts than the
social
sciences.
I have, however, been thinking about how we can improve the thesis
abstract - which in itself might be considered as a thesis statement?
The short paper attached might be of interest in this respect.
Cheers
Jim
James Hartley
School of Psychology
Keele University
Staffordshire
ST5 5BG
UK
[log in to unmask]
http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/ps/people/JHartley/index.htm
--------
From: European Association for the Teaching of Academic Writing -
discussions [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alexander
Baratta
Sent: 16 June 2010 21:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The Thesis Statement
Dear Colleagues,
I would be grateful if as many of you as possible might be able to
respond to two quick questions regarding the thesis statement, or
'argument' as it is known in the UK.
1. How would you define a thesis statement?
2. What is a good thesis statement?
Thanks for your assistance on this matter,
Best wishes,
Alex Baratta
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