Thanks Erik! You're right that there's more to it than "just" A and B, no
matter what A and B might be.
Certainly the little diagrams in my blog post are very simplified, and I
know it. Yes, complexity is a big issue, but I didn't want to cloud things
by trying to include it.
Terry Love has written about the complexity thing too - his
more-than-2-feedback-loops thing.
All of this is important stuff that needs to be stitched together into a
meaningful whole.
I have some thoughts about the complexity thing, but they're still embryonic
and need to gestate more.
Cheers.
Fil
On 2 April 2010 04:43, Erik Stolterman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Filippo and Don,
>
> Thanks to both of you for interesting ideas and arguments. Overall I find
> both of you to be right in your analysis and I only have a couple of
> comments.
>
> Instead of contrasting the two concepts of needs and technology, I would
> like to make the picture a bit richer. When I think about the complexity of
> development or progress, I like to include the following concepts as
> different aspects and factors: discovery, invention, innovation, and
> design.
> These are quite well defined concepts and all relate in different ways to
> the issues of need and technology. Any new design is, as Filippo nicely
> shows, a complex network of forces, and all have some aspect of each
> discovery, invention, innovation and design. There are probably even more
> potential aspects to consider, but my point is that reducing it to a
> question between need versus technolgy kind of makes the issue a bit too
> simple and I think thereby also misses the most important point, which to
> me
> is the recognition of the overwhelming complexity of progress and its
> anatomy.
>
> The other point I want to make is that what Filippo suggest as a model is
> to
> me a version of what Latour suggests. There are never any simple
> cause-effect relationships in reality, there are only complex networks with
> alignments and alliances. Of course, Latour does not really give any advice
> on how to handle or strategize when it comes to such complex realities, but
> what his philosophy shows is that if we, in an effort to understand reality
> (and progress), creates to simplistic models we will not make "progess".
> What designers are good at (when they do good) is to be able to handle the
> complexity, to understand new discoveries, new inventions and innovations
> and in close understanding of the human condition design new possible
> realities. There is no starting point in either needs or technology, there
> is only the challenge of making sense of existing conditions and
> potentials....
>
> Enough rambling on a "långfredag" (long friday) which is the Swedish name
> of
> this day....
>
> Erik
>
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Don Norman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hurrah! Filippo's analysis is wonderful. here is the comment i entered on
> > his blog page:
> >
> > Very nice analysis. Precisely what I was hoping might result: informed
> > discussion and debate, perhaps new formulations. Alas, most of the debate
> > has been uninformed. Thank you, Filippo. This is the best analysis I have
> > seen. I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I obviously didn't.
> > Don Norman
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Filippo A. Salustri <
> [log in to unmask]
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > It's taken a long time, but I've finally put down some thoughts on the
> > > whole
> > > technology & need thing.
> > > Those still interested can read them at
> > >
> >
> http://filsalustri.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/balancing-need-and-technology/
> > > Cheers.
> > > Fil
> > >
> > > On 18 December 2009 03:57, Rosan Chow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Charles Burnette wrote on 08.12.2009
> > > >
> > > > "Don Norman seems on our minds these days. Those committing or
> > > > committed to design research should read his latest contribution to
> > > > the discusssion:"
> > > >
> > > > http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/technology_first_needs_last.html
> > > >
> > > > [...]
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
> > > Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
> > > Ryerson University
> > > 350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON
> > > M5B 2K3, Canada
> > > Tel: 416/979-5000 ext 7749
> > > Fax: 416/979-5265
> > > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > > http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/ <http://deseng.ryerson.ca/%7Efil/> <
> http://deseng.ryerson.ca/%7Efil/>
> > >
> >
>
--
Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON
M5B 2K3, Canada
Tel: 416/979-5000 ext 7749
Fax: 416/979-5265
Email: [log in to unmask]
http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/
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