medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I don't have access to the catalogue of Le Tresor de la Sainte-Chapelle,
but I managed to find something in another exhibition catalogue, on Le
tresor de Saint-Denis, which pretty much confirms what Cecilia and
Brenda proposed. Saint-Denis did indeed have a single thorn, but it was
embedded in a crown-shaped reliquary which, from the late 13th century,
was known as "la sainte Couronne", but previously was known as the
"corona spinee Domini - not the Crown of Thorns, but the Crown of
Thorn. There could have been a succession of such crowns. Louis VI, on
his deathbed, gave Abbot Suger the humugous hyacinth of Anne of Kiev to
fix on "la couronne d'epines de Notre Seigneur". Later the crown became
known as "la couronne de saint Louis". Presumably the move away from
referring to it as "the Crown of Thorns" acknowledged the presence of
the full crown (minus a whole bunch of thorns) in the Sainte-Chapelle.
Merci, tout le gang. Particularly, Abby.
Jim
Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture I'm in a bit late here, and not in the office which has the
> books that can give the answer. But there were multiple attestations
> of the (a?) Crown of Thorns prior to 1238, including, if memory
> serves, at Aachen and at Saint Denis. The place I'd look would be either:
>
> Chiara Mercuri, Corona Di Cristo Corona Di Re: La Monarchia Francese E
> La Corona Di Spine Nel Medioevo (Rome: Edizioni di storia e
> letteratura, 2004).
>
> or
>
> Musée du Louvre, Le Trésor De La Sainte-Chapelle (Paris: Réunion des
> musées nationaux, 2001), p. 302. [A Museum Catalogue, but very useful]
>
> There is some irony in the fact that during the Revolution the relics
> were transferred to Saint Denis for safe keeping. Where, I suppose,
> one crown of thorns met the other....
>
> If this doesn't get solved properly before I can get to it, I'll get
> to it.
>
> cecilia
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Ms B M Cook <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> Isn't this a matter of perception ?
>
> The part standing in for the whole ?
>
> Modern Bishops and Museum curators - at lest in the soi-disant
> Western World - consider they have an obligation to respect the
> integrity of the objects in their care but even as recently as the
> 19th C it wasn't the case.
>
> For example, while waiting for the Cemetery of Pere Lachaise to be
> ready, the (presumed) bones of Abelard and Heloise were hanging
> about ( in a box of some sort ?) in the office of one M. Alexandre
> Lenoir the then Director of the Paris Museums. If he had a visitor
> he wanted to impress, he dipped into the container and gave his
> guest a bone fragment or two ....
>
> Any place claiming to have "the relics" of anything almost
> certainly doesn't have the WHOLE thing whether Crown or Skelly,
> just a bit broken off .... And something like a Crown of Thorns
> could easily be subdivided, and one spine mounted in something
> crown shaped for display .... And so on.
>
> Multiple locations are not a problem!
>
> BMC
>
> And having said that, only a few years ago a shoulderblade from
> among the bones inside the reliquary of St Alban in St
> Panteleon's, Cologne was sent to the (Church of England) Cathedral
> & Abbey Church of Saint Alban, St Albans to be installed in the
> restored mediaeval shrine.......
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Jim Bugslag"
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> To: <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:27 AM
> Subject: [M-R] Crown of Thorns
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and culture
>
> Dear Abby,
> Everybody knows that Louis IX obtained the Crown of Thorns
> from Constantinople in the mid-13th century. So, why do I
> keep coming across references to a Crown of Thorns at the
> abbey of Saint-Denis in the early 12th century? Perplexed
>
>
>
>
>
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