medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Just thought it was time that the title of this thread got changed, as
people who might be interested may well have stopped following it! Nothing
really to contribute, except that similar issues are found in judaism, such
as the practice of placing old prayer books and prayer shawls in graves or
torah scrolls in a geniza
Laura
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr Jim Bugslag" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 23 February 2010 15:55
Subject: Re: [M-R] moving churchyards / cemetaries (please excuse
cross-posting)
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Tom,
The nearest I've come yet to finding anything is in Mallion's book on
the Chartres jubé, in relation to the demolition of the jubé in 1763:
"Conformément à l'ancienne règle canonique relative aux décombres des
édifices sacrés, les débris furent conservés en terre sainte,
c'est-è-dire dans l'intérieur même de l'église." (p. 30). Note 31
contains a related citation "Le code n'a pas maintenu d'anciennes
prescriptions interdisant tout usage non sacré de la pierre ou du métal
des objets qui ont perdu leur consécration." which is apparently from
Naz, Dictionnaire de Droit canonique, art. "Consécration", fasc. XIX, p.
251, which you possibly might have available to you.
Cheers,
Jim
Tom Izbicki wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Jim,
> I found a canon concerning burning of worn out vestments:
> De consecratione D. 1 c. 39 Altaris palla. It says ashes of vestments can
> be buried under pavement, as long as they are not under foot.
> Perhaps this was a precedent for burying images.
> Tom Izbicki
>
> Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>>
>> Tom,
>> I have to admit that I've never actually searched through the decrees of
>> the Council of Trent, and my statement was certainly based on secondary
>> sources. As fascinating as the Session 25 material you pointed out is,
>> it certainly says nothing about the disposal of sacred images, and there
>> are some other subjects I would have expected to see there that weren't.
>> I'm wondering if the actual source might be writers who began commenting
>> on the Trentine pronouncements on images, such as Johannes Molinus. I'll
>> try to find out more.
>> Cheers,
>> Jim
>>
>> Tom Izbicki wrote:
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>> I do not find this in Trent's main pronouncement on images in Session
>>> 25:
>>> http://www.bluffton.edu/~humanities/2/trent.htm#s25saints
>>> Might the Curia have issued a regulation about disposition of images
>>> subsequent to the Council?
>>> Tom Izbicki
>>>
>>> Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:
>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>> culture
>>>>
>>>> This is not exactly the same thing, but many statues and screens that
>>>> were removed from churches in the early modern period were buried
>>>> beneath the church floor, in order to keep them within consecrated
>>>> space. I believe this was a practice enjoined by the Council of Trent.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> Tom Izbicki wrote:
>>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>>> culture
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing specific in Gratian's Decretum on moving churches or
>>>>> cemeteries. Nor in the Gregorian Decretals. There is, however, a
>>>>> provision in the
>>>>> Tractatus de consecratione saying timbers dedicated to a church can
>>>>> only
>>>>> be used on another church, not for lay purposes: De consecratione D. 1
>>>>> c.
>>>>> 38.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Izbicki
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>>>> culture
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings all,
>>>>>> I was intrigued to read in the Pentitential of Theodore
>>>>>> provisions
>>>>>> regarding the moving of a church, also of the disposal of the lumber
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> had been used to build a church. Do list members have knowledge of
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> other provisions concerning the moving of churches (or graveyards),
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> this period or later ones?
>>>>>> I´d be especially interested in anything on this topic from the late
>>>>>> eleventh or 12th century. I´m looking for comparanda for Icelandic
>>>>>> provisions where, among other things, it is ordered that people hunt
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the (old) churchyard for bones as if they were hunting for money, in
>>>>>> order
>>>>>> to transfer them to
>>>>>> the new churchyard. I´d also be interested in provisions concerning
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> possibility that cemeteries might remain where they were even if the
>>>>>> church
>>>>>> was moved (with the implication that there would no longer be burials
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> such cemeteries, as that would happen in the churchyard of the new
>>>>>> church
>>>>>> location.)
>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>> Meg
>>>>>>
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