lis-pub-libbers
Mike Maguire sent this to me directly when posting to the list - he has
asked me to re-post as he has email problems posting to the list.
Regards
JU
*****
Mike,
I often post on Fridays as most of our branches are closed, and I get
'thinking time' due to lack of interruptions...
But what can I say to all that but - yes! And, as usual, put so much
better than me!
I once posted to this list that:
'...a fine for a book is simply a repeat hire charge, without
the initial charge!...'
which is, I think, is similar to your:
'... a charge (not a fine) beyond the statutory initial free
loan period for books...'
I recall being accused of talking gibberish...
Cheers
JU
John Usher
ICT Manager
Library and Heritage Services
Islington Council
Central Library
2 Fieldway Crescent
LONDON N5 1PF
Tel: 020 7527 6920
Mobile: 07825 098 223
Fax: 020 7527 6926
Alternative contact: Michelle Gannon - 020 7527 6907
www.islington.gov.uk
How to get to Central Library:
http://www.islington.gov.uk/Education/Libraries/Local/Central.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Maguire [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 04 February 2010 17:59
To: Usher, John
Subject: RE: Overdue notifications
"Damn! I can't resist! ... & why now John & not as so often on a
Friday?"
This debate goes round ever so often ... but just to get a few context
points into place .... & btw, definitely, just a personal opinion ...
* Legal basis ... without reverting to checking the "actual law"
there is a legal (I believe discretionary) entitlement to make (keeping
this simple) that are not returned when notified so to do.
*****
* Cost realities
On the model of the service is only free within certain constraints,
effectively the charge extends the service into an optional non-free
zone, i.e. overdue hire charge until the book is required back for
another purpose when removal of user rights may also be applied as a
penalty
As already pointed out, now would be an interesting time to drop this
non-free element with budgets likely to go into steep decline the year
after next, let alone the budget reductions coming from April on.
And ... has anyone identified whether the income is significantly more
than the cost of administering overdues, remembering that lost income
has to be balanced with losing the associated costs (e.g. staffing), or
finding the lost income by offset costs from elsewhere in the budget, or
by additional income from elsewhere or by an admixture of one or more of
these.
*****
* Customer -friendly?
In one sense obviously & certainly not ... o'dues & charges setups are
not in the least friendly for the individual users or for that matter
for the staff involved. But looking more widely at the implications for
the overall customer experience, maybe not so straightforward?
*****
* Stock management?
Mmm... I personally don't agree with the thinking based on an HE
institution where so much more of the reading is on a prescriptive basis
On the assumption that a good deal of "good stock" will end up on
people's shelves at home for long periods and the range of stock
available on the library shelves thus shrinks
I would argue that the pub lib "readership" depends so much more for
satisfaction on finding a good read, for whatever purpose "on the
shelves" at the time of visit & serendipity has a positive contribution
to make in satisfaction levels for so many users.
But even following the more prescriptive reading approach where the
users needs are much more closely identified, thinking here might have
to cross-relate to the reservation service & charges for that in order
to get something specifically required to the user asap. Imo, that is no
substitute for the perhaps most important customer experience overall in
lending terms of finding something to read when I go to the library.
Anecdotally, we did experiment for a while quite a few years ago with no
o'due charges for oaps though reminders were still sent only to be met
with a significant amount of relatively mild abuse when pointing out the
books still had to be returned. While this is not quite the same as no
loan periods & no fines (to a certain point) we just had to retreat to a
halfway approach with reduced charges
*****
* Additional & combined factors
Interlibrary loans really do need to be run on a strict monitoring basis
which is usually fronted by the o'due procedures unless of course the
item is on an even tighter & closely monitored arrangement
As budgets decrease significantly some counter dynamics begin to emerge
... bookstock has to work so much harder ... there is/will be less of it
to go round. Stock unnecessarily languishing on someone's shelves at
home just because the user doesn't need to & can't be bothered to take
it back could well trigger off additional requests ... so yes, as
already mentioned, the move to no o'dues may well have to be coupled
with a significant decrease in the number of books on loan at any one
time.
Over a period of say 10-6 years ago, leading up to & including Best
Value, our stock content had become increasingly so poor due to "cuts"
year on that issues declined dramatically and user unhappiness became
increasingly manifest. (BV really came to our rescue on that occasion)
that we felt forced to reduce the loan period from 4 to 3 weeks. This
did mitigate the scarcity of choice to some extent and I do wonder if
the reverse might apply with the removal of the loan period structure.
*****
* Rationale
As for why o'dues, my personal opinion is that they are a "tool" both
for income generation and to maximise the choice and use of stock across
as many of our borrowers as reasonably possible and particularly when
resource/book funds are already stretched and getting ever tighter.
How we go about applying the o'due charges and what discretionary
elements we might include are however an important element in the
customer experience.
But give me a great big bookfund long term "guaranteed" & I'd cheerfully
& quickly adapt that perspective! But hush ... there goes that flying
pig!
*****
Mike
Mike Maguire
Service Development Manager
Devon Libraries
tel 01392 384326
fax 01392 384316
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.devon.gov.uk/library/
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-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Usher, John
Sent: 03 February 2010 13:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Overdue notifications
To quote Max Bygraves (you can tell my age...)
'...I wanna tell ya a story...' - possibly true, possibly
apocryphal,
but illustrates a point.
In the dim and distant past, in the days of Manual Issue, there
was a
Children's library which had a lots of school visits, which made
up a
significant proportion of their loans.
One month, when the weather was atrocious, the loans across the
entire
service were on the floor, but this Children's library's figures
were
normal. On being congratulated on the dedication of their users,
it
turned out that they had a practice of recounting as renewals
any class
loans even if the class didn't come in.
They were promptly told to stop this practice...
Was that an 'automatic renewal'? - in which case it should have
been a
uniform across the service (for classes, for individual users) -
or was
it, to put it bluntly, fraud on the loan figures?
So let's think 'outside the box' for a minute - why do we have
return
dates at all, and spend lots of money on complex LMS's, and
spend lots
of expensive staff time setting up complex rules for loan
periods,
overdues/underdues, fine/charge rules inside the LMS, then make
lots of
exemptions for Self-Service Machines, user circumstances. etc.
etc?
Why not issue the items with *no* return date, and issue a
recall if
anybody reserves them. If the user doesn't return the item
within a
stipulated time, rachet up a financial penalty rapidly. But if
they
don't come in, can you actually get the item back and realise
that
penalty? only if they want to continue using the service...
And what is a fine (or a repeat hire charge for audio items)
for, and
where should it be pitched? is it to 'encourage' the users to
come back,
or is it income generation, to price the service at what the
market will
bear?, which, incidentally, is what I suspect Ken did as a
Commercial
Director of LMS companies in selling software.
Not Cost-Plus (Socialism) for the supplier, but 'Functional
Pricing' -
if the customer gets a benefit, the supplier takes a cut, even
if the
price to the supplier of producing the software is trivial
(Capitalism).
Are library users any different to library services than library
services are to suppliers? Are we in a Welfare role?
And people don't value 'free goods'? If it's free they look down
on it
and abuse it, and demand goes through the roof with limited
resources (a
la NHS?)
So it's all psychologically and sociologically based?
Decide what it is we're trying to do with fines and charges and
we might
get somewhere!
Thoughts of Chairman Usher...
Regards
JU
John Usher
ICT Manager
Library and Heritage Services
Islington Council
Central Library
2 Fieldway Crescent
LONDON N5 1PF
Tel: 020 7527 6920
Mobile: 07825 098 223
Fax: 020 7527 6926
Alternative contact: Michelle Gannon - 020 7527 6907
www.islington.gov.uk
How to get to Central Library:
http://www.islington.gov.uk/Education/Libraries/Local/Central.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken Chad
Sent: 03 February 2010 11:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LIS-PUB-LIBS] Overdue notifications
Not quite an answer to your question but a university I was
talking to
the other day *automatically* renews item if they are not
requested,
recalled etc. As a much fined public library user I think that
is
*great* (proactive) customer service... I'd love it if my public
library
did that for me
Ken
CEO, Ken Chad Consulting Ltd
Tel +44 (0)7788 727 845. Email: [log in to unmask]
www.kenchadconsulting.com
Skype: kenchadconsulting
Get a pre-launch preview of the 'Local Government Library IT'
Wiki
http://lglibtech.wikispaces.com/ See my recent presentations on
slideshare: http://www.slideshare.net/kenchad
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Helen Dew
Sent: 02 February 2010 13:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Overdue notifications
Hello
Has any authority stopped sending pre-overdue or overdue
notifications
of
any
sort (paper, email, SMS etc)? If so, what was level of customer
reaction?
What kind of impact has it had on the level of stock that gets
returned?
Many thanks. Will summarise for the list.
Helen Dew
Customer Development Officer
Libraries & Information
Gloucestershire County Council
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