medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Tom,
I wish I could tell you, but as with so many aspects of medieval art
history, the Iberian peninsula often tends to get left aside, and I
really do not know it well.
Jim
Tom Izbicki wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Jim,
> Interesting. What about the Iberian Peninsula? Tom Izbicki
>
> Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture
>>
>> Tom,
>> The geography of the macabre is rather fascinating. "Verminous
>> Cadaver" tombs may be "rare" in England, and in France as well, but
>> they are quite common in the Germanic countries, the oldest being
>> that of Franz von Sarraz from the late 14th century (later ones get
>> much more gruesome). On the other hand, any sort of cadaver or
>> transi tombs are almost completely absent in Italy. Panofsky relates
>> this, I believe, to another distinction between Italian tombs and
>> those elsewhere in Europe: effigies in Italy are usually represented
>> with their eyes closed, as opposed to open elsewhere.
>> Cheers,
>> Jim
>>
>> Thomas Izbicki wrote:
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>>
>>> Are the transi tombs more connected with the Memento mori / Ars
>>> moriendi? I am reminded of the Wakeman centotaph at Tewksbury
>>> Abbey, described thus on a web page I just found:
>>> "This figure represents the usual 15th century effigy of a corpse in
>>> an advanced state of decay. The difference with this one against
>>> others is that this is a rare "Verminous Cadaver" with a mouse
>>> gnawing at his bowels, a snake in his shroud near his feet, a worm
>>> on his left knee, a beetle on his left arm and a frog near his head.
>>> There is also what is thought to be a lizard on his left thigh.
>>> Wakeman was consecrated as the first Bishop of Gloucester in 1541
>>> and is buried elsewhere."
>>> This is the URL, but I could not get the pictures to display:
>>> http://www.churchmousewebsite.co.uk/cadavertombs/tewkesbury_cadaver.htm
>>> Tom Izbicki
>>>
>>> Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:
>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>> culture
>>>>
>>>> Jon Cannon wrote:
>>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>>> culture ...I like the term 'social body' for the late medieval
>>>>> effigies one finds on transi tombs. I've recently studied one of
>>>>> these in detail - John Carpenter, bp. of Worcester, to be
>>>>> published by the Bristol Record Society later this year. In this
>>>>> case there is (and probably never was) a 'social body', just a
>>>>> cadaver with mitre and staff to indicate status in life. But the
>>>>> (lost but reconstructable) architectural and iconographic setting
>>>>> for this tomb strongly suggests a 'Resurrection' layer of meaning,
>>>>> too, at least in this case.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...If these are the 'social bodies' of the people concerned, I
>>>>> wonder if we need another for the more standardised and idealised
>>>>> effigies of the C13/C14...
>>>>
>>>> In images of the Last Judgement, the Resurrected are generally
>>>> shown naked, although one occasionally sees a naked bishop wearing
>>>> his mitre or a naked king with his crown. One further factor that
>>>> might argue against the "Resurrection" state is that the
>>>> Resurrected have, I believe, not simply a perfectly resurrected
>>>> body but also have their souls reconjoined with those bodies,
>>>> whereas from about the late 13th century, one begins to get small
>>>> images of a naked soul in the bosom of Abraham in the canopywork
>>>> sheltering the effigy. And in the case of tomb brasses and other
>>>> "floor tombs" the effigy is, if not intended to be walked on, at
>>>> least expected to be walked on -- which might suggest that it was
>>>> meant just to represent the mortal body rather than the Resurrected
>>>> one. Another factor, certainly, is the lack of any naturalistic
>>>> portrait for an effigy before about the late 14th century.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...In England there is a particularly inventive (and thus
>>>>> instructive) phase in the earlier C14, when we get figures with
>>>>> their eyes open (Bristol) or twisting on a bed of rocks,
>>>>> apparently about to rise up and draw a sword (Burrough Green,
>>>>> Reepham, Ingham); these presumably related to the much-studied and
>>>>> extraordinary C13 sword-reaching effigies (eg Dorchester abbey and
>>>>> elsewhere). If *these* chaps are depicted in the moment of
>>>>> resurrection, their defensive reaction may not sit well when
>>>>> Judgement begins!
>>>> When it comes right down to it, there are a lot of anomalies in
>>>> funerary effigies, and this probably, to some extent, registers
>>>> broader anomalies concerning what happens to souls between death
>>>> and the Last Judgement. Even at the "official" level of theology,
>>>> there does not appear to have been a clear single position on many
>>>> aspects of eschatology.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... I am interested to learn that Panofsky talks of family tombs
>>>>> with kids in the C14. I can't think of them in England. Tomb with
>>>>> 'weepers', yes, but not specifically kids. In any case, I presume
>>>>> even our medieval people didn't think dead children would be
>>>>> resurrected at age 33! ... (though nothing would suprise me...)
>>>>
>>>> There are lots of English family brasses.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>
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