Hello

I do like to see a bit of debate flaring up on MCG, and it's great  
that we're debating the intersection between learning and digital  
strategy, which is all too rare. I think it's really important to  
understand what different users need/want from the cultural offer, and  
to plan how we can deliver it using an integrated mix of digital,  
material and human tools. But I agree with Gail that this probably  
isn't the research that will tell us what we need to know.

I don't think we should read this press release as 'digital versus  
real'. It's really about 'good learning versus bad learning'. It's  
pointing up the banality of interactives built on a behaviourist and  
didactic model, and those can be pretty low-tech too. The main point  
of the manifesto is that we need to make cultural experiences  
purposeful, meaningful, accessible and playful for all visitors. We  
know that there are many ways of using technology to enhance the  
purpose and fun of cultural experiences, and we've seen these ways  
working. When we learn about the new generation of tech (3D film,  
touch-projection, ARGs, geolocation etc etc) we can imagine how these  
tools can be harnessed to affect or even revolutionise learning and  
culture. We also know from good experiences (and have learned from  
failures) that it is possible to use technology to save money and  
time, to share knowledge more effectively and to reach more visitors  
(and some of us believe that those savings are more possible using the  
web than investing in bricks & mortar and flashy exhibitions).

We don't doubt that the public excitement for mobile technology,  
digital games, open data and social media can't in some way translate  
to the cultural offer.

What we doubt is our capacity to achieve this translation in the  
current climate. What we need is to advocate our vision effectively,  
to get enough investment; in order to develop products iteratively and  
to work collaboratively with learning experts, outside suppliers,  
audience representatives and other partners; and also to develop new  
business models. If we can articulate the best processes, we'll doubt  
ourselves and be doubted less.

Bridget
www.flowassociates.com


Quoting "Looseley, Rhiannon" <[log in to unmask]>:

> Hi there
>
> Firstly, thanks to Nick for circulating this, it certainly makes
> interesting reading but as Gail says, I don't think we necessarily need
> to be too worried by it.
>
> I don't think any of us have ever suggested that a visit to a Museum
> should prioritise technology over dressing up and handling real objects.
> Studies have shown that using technology alongside more traditional
> learning methods like role play and object handling has proved very
> effective, particularly at motivating young learners.
>
> I also had the same reaction as Mia in thinking that the report was
> talking about in-gallery interactives rather than online material. Even
> in the unlikely event that people ceased to want any kind of technology
> in gallery, there could still be lots of scope for the pre- and
> post-visit material that we provide to enhance visitors' experience of
> their visit.
>
> Lastly, and I know that the survey will have consulted adults and
> children as a family unit, but I would be interested to see whether it
> was the adults or the children who
>
> 'don't want 'hands on' to mean passively pushing buttons. They want
> hands on to mean just that - handling real things, dressing-up, getting
> messy'
>
> When testing online games I've seen how some children are drawn in and
> excited pretty much as soon as they see a computer screen.  Now, as I
> say above, I'm not therefore arguing that we should therefore always
> pander to this, but that we should be using technology alongside, not
> instead of, these traditional methods, but if we can harness children's
> interest in technology to continue their enthusiasm for learning then so
> much the better surely?
>
> Thanks
> Rhiannon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Gail Durbin
> Sent: 11 January 2010 16:03
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Kids in Museums press release - families want less
> in-gallery IT and more hands-on experiences
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I don't find this the slightest bit sobering. If you survey 'real'
> visitors of course they are going to focus on real experiences. If you
> ask a group that was set up to improve the experience of coming to a
> museum with kids then they are going to focus on exactly that, and
> indeed they should do as there are many things that could be improved.
>
> But to extrapolate from that very biased sample that there is an
> emerging theme and generalise about the excitement of digital receding
> seems a bit daft. In our museum for every one person who walks through
> the front door 7 or 8 experience the museum via the website and because
> over 60% of our web visitors come from abroad I have to assume a lot of
> them will never visit our museum. Surely we need improvements in both
> the museum experience and the online experience. As someone who has
> spent a large part of their career in face to face education I see no
> conflict between digitisation of collections and useful educational
> facilities for visitors. We need both. For us a strong digitised
> collection is a foundation that can be used to feed into all sorts of
> functionality that has real meaning to our visitors including kids.
>
> Gail Durbin
> Head of V&A Online
>
>
>
>
>>>> Nick Poole <[log in to unmask]> 11 January 2010 >>>
> Dear Museum Computer Group,
>
>
>
> I thought that some of you would be interested in the press release
> issued today by Kids in Museums. The information has been provided by
> real visitors submitting hundreds of feedback forms and letters, and I
> think it makes sobering reading for those of involved in online
> collections!
>
> I have a feeling that this is going to become an emerging theme in the
> next 2 years as the excitement of Digital recedes and leaves in its wake
> something better-integrated which makes best use of technology to inform
> people about and lead them to real, physical and meaningful interactions
> with collections - we're likely to see more 'back to basics' rhetoric as
> the Public Sector Recession bites deeper and there are fewer
> opportunities for speculative digital projects. Kids in Museums are keen
> to encourage a debate around these themes, and I'd be interested to hear
> any reactions on-list.
>
>
>
> All best,
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> LAUNCH OF 2010 KIDS IN MUSEUMS MANIFESTO THURSDAY 14th JANUARY
>
>
>
> Sitting at a computer screen or fingering a fossil? Families want less
> technology and more simple hands-on experiences in museums.
>
>
>
> The new 2010 Kids in Museums Manifesto is being launched, compiled
> entirely from visitors' comments. And this year families have made it
> clear - they don't want 'hands on' to mean passively pushing buttons.
> They want hands on to mean just that - handling real things,
> dressing-up, getting messy. They want a bit of bone to handle or a
> replica of a Tudor costume to pull on. Families can sit in front of a
> computer screen or play on a Wii at home. Museums should be different.
> They have the thrill of the real.
>
>
>
> 'I remember my first visit to the British Museum with my father at the
> age of eight. I was fascinated by the Rosetta Stone. I was thrilled to
> be able to touch it - it was uncovered at the time - and physically
> connect with history,' says Neil MacGregor, Director, British Museum.
>
>
>
> 'Of the thousands of visitors' suggestions we received for the 2010
> Manifesto, hardly any mentioned technology and gadgets. Families talked
> about making paper planes in a gallery like Leonardo da Vinci, or
> shining a torch into a dark corner of a glass cabinet as if they were
> discovering something for the first time. There's nothing hi tech about
> that,' says Dea Birkett, Director, Kids in Museums. 'Museums need to
> listen to families, and provide sensual experiences, not clean and
> clinical ones.'
>
>
>
> The demand for better hands-on, interactive exhibits is just one point
> in the 2010 Kids in Museums Manifesto - 20 ways to make a museum family
> friendly - being launched at the British Museum on 14th January. The
> British Museum is a signatory to the Kids in Museums Manifesto and a
> place families have always enjoyed.
>
>
>
> Other new points in the 2010 Manifesto include:
>
> Provide a place to leave prams
>
> Families are fed up of being told there's nowhere to store their prams
> and pushchairs in museums. Museums and galleries should provide a place
> for families to leave all their baggage, so they're free enjoy Picasso,
> ancient pottery or prehistoric artefacts without being encumbered by
> buggies stuffed with changing bags and piles of winter coats. And if the
> galleries weren't crowded with unwanted prams, visitors without kids
> would have a better time, too.
>
> 'Don't touch!' is never enough
>
> Families tell museum staff - be positive when you speak to us! Stop
> telling us off. Say things like, 'Isn't that a great painting. Let's
> look at it together from further back.'
>
> Have flexible family tickets
>
> Don't dictate the size of a family. Families come in all shapes and
> sizes. We want a family ticket even if we have three kids, or are a lone
> parent family with a grandparent too.
>
>
>
> Kids in Museums - a Brief History
>
>
>
> In 2003, writer Dea Birkett was thrown out of the Royal Academy's Aztec
> exhibition when her youngest son, aged two, shouted 'Monster!' at a
> statue of Eagle Man who looked rather like - well - a monster. Four days
> later, Dea wrote a piece about her family's expulsion in the Guardian.
> By the end of that day, hundreds of families emailed to say they were
> fed up being treated badly in Britain's museums, and wanted to see
> change. Kids in Museums was born, a voice for every family visitor.
>
>
>
> Today Kids in Museums is an independent charity, working with museums to
> make them more welcoming to families, in particular those who have never
> had the opportunity to visit before. Kids in Museums believes in
> changing museums, we can change lives, giving opportunities and
> experiences to new families.
>
>
>
>
>
> Further details, interviews and copies of the 2010 Kids in Museums
> Manifesto contact:
>
>
>
> Telephone 020 7022 1888
>
>
>
> Email [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> Website www.kidsinmuseums.org.uk
>
>
>
> Images and Quentin Blake illustrations available for press use.
>
>
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