Jeremy et al,
Just for the record, my time as a doctoral student was the best time of my
life. But, then again, I know I'm weird. :) This may bias my beliefs as
much as the experiences of others that you've recounted below.
Besides that, I agree with everything you wrote, except "The work can be
anything the the committee accepts." And while the cmte must accept it, I
believe that there must be certain standards that are known to anyone able
to sit on such a committee, and that there be some way to ensure that the
work was recognized as fulfilling those standards. The standards can vary
between disciplines. What extent of variation should be allowed goes
well-beyond this discussion, and I certainly wouldn't be qualified to pass
judgment on any proposed description of variations. I believe this because,
in the absence of such standards, there is no way to guarantee that
recipients of a doctorate have "measured up."
This is entirely disjoint from the problem of "miraculous transformations."
I'm not sure where that comes from; I've not really noticed it anywhere I've
worked, but that doesn't mean anything except I have no direct experience of
it. I agree that it would be good to dispel this notion, though.
Cheers.
Fil
2009/12/8 jeremy hunsinger <[log in to unmask]>
> I don't think there will be a 'new degree' there is in some countries a
> degree above the ph.d. The existence of that degree in Australia granted
> sort of honorarily, and in the Nordic countries after completing other work
> after the dissertations. There is also the M.Phil. which is the degree
> some universities offer if you do not produce a dissertation but complete
> all the work necessary for that.
>
> the ph.d. signifies its minimum standard. It currently means you have
> produced unique research that your committee thinks meets the level of a
> doctorate. It does not mean you've produced a manuscript of a certain
> length, as for the last 30 years many universities around the world have
> allowed dissertations by compilation of published materials. It does not
> mean that you are capable of managing a research project of any size because
> many doctoral dissertations are managed by the supervisors as part of a
> research group. It does not mean you have defended the research in any way,
> as several universities do not require oral or written defenses. It does
> not necessarily mean anything else other than the production of research
> approved by a committee. People have indicated that the doctoral
> dissertation means a person has performed a mental transformation.... and it
> doesn't mean that either. Anything else is likely reflected in one's vita.
>
> As I said, there is no necessary magic here, there is nothing special to a
> dissertation, it is a person performing work to a level that can pass
> review. The work can be anything the the committee accepts. This is not to
> say that some people do not have miraculous transformations, but I've never
> seen a good one, though i've seen many people have breakdowns or other
> problems because, i'd argue, they were buying into the ideology or magical
> transformation mindset, that tells them everything will be different. At my
> Uni, we have had jr professors commit suicide before because of this
> ideology of transformation, etc. Post-dissertation depression is actually
> quite well known as a problem. I think academics need to really critically
> reflect on it and see what harm it is doing by posing the dissertation as
> something transformative, it is academic labour in pursuit of a goal, which
> is attainable by many people. There is no special transformation that
> occurs, anymore than the transformation of any other knowledge gained, a car
> mechanic has the exact same thing.
>
> That should reduce the doctoral experience sufficiently to what it really
> has become, a qualification. Nothing special to it other than it qualifies
> you to perform some jobs in some people's eyes.
>
> My statement below was to indicate that for many universities in the U.S.
> there is a graduate faculty. Admission to the graduate faculty is usually
> granted after a period of years in which one serves on graduate student
> committees and performs related tasks, etc. This I'd argue is the
> apprenticeship in supervision that seems to be required and missing from
> doctoral programs. Many universities have recognized that performing as a
> doctoral student is insufficient to supervise doctoral students. Some
> people might be able to, but some will not, so they have this other
> institution to try to ensure that students are supervised well. (note it
> also aids in making sure doctoral students are not supervised by people
> without tenure, thus limiting the obvious problems there for both supervisor
> and student)
>
> [...]
>
> --
Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON
M5B 2K3, Canada
Tel: 416/979-5000 ext 7749
Fax: 416/979-5265
Email: [log in to unmask]
http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/
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