medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>
> Well, except that you're probably expected to regard Clement VII as an
antipope - "France, Scotland, Castile, Aragon, Navarre, Portugal, Savoy,
Denmark, Norway, and some minor German states acknowledged his authority". It
doesn't say anything about the USA.
ahhh, so an antipope's statements may be assumed to be the precise opposite of
the Truth?
therefore, contrary to its evident appearance, the Turin Artifact is *not* a
14th c. painting.
Mandyllion lovers everwhere will be happy to hear that.
> (Your two paragraphs contradict each other. "Clement VI" in the first
paragraph should either be "Clement VII" and be read in the light of the
second paragraph, or else read "Urban VI".)
not "my paragraphs" --sorry, i should have put them in quotes; they are from
the 1917 C.A. (via the ever-useful Wikiponsasinorum.com).
c
> ---- Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > From: John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>
> > > ---- Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > >> besides, every one knows that the Turin Artifact is, obviously, just a
13th
> > painting.
> >
> >
> > > Early 14th c.
> >
> >
> > quite right, John.
> >
>> the "modern" provenance of the thing dates from its [re-]surfacing in
Champagne the 1350s:
>> On 20 June, 1353, Geoffroy de Charny, Lord of Savoisy and Lirey,
founded at Lirey in honour of the Annunciation a collegiate church with six
canonries, and in this church he exposed for veneration the Holy Winding
Sheet. Opposition arose on the part of the Bishop of Troyes, who declared
after due inquiry that the relic was nothing but a painting, and opposed its
exposition. Clement VI by four Bulls, 6 Jan., 1390, approved the exposition as
lawful. In 1418 during the civil wars, the canons entrusted the Winding Sheet
to Humbert, Count de La Roche, Lord of Lirey. Margaret, widow of Humbert,
never returned it but gave it in 1452 to the Duke of Savoy. The requests of
the canons of
Lirey were unavailing, and the Lirey Winding Sheet is the same that is now
exposed and honoured at Turin.
>> Owing mainly to the researches of Canon Ulysse Chevalier a series of
documents was discovered which clearly proved that in 1389 the Bishop of
Troyes appealed to Clement VII, the Avignon Pope then recognized in France, to
put a stop to the scandals connected to the Shroud preserved at Lirey. It was,
the Bishop declared, the work of an artist who some years before had confessed
to having painted it but it was then being exhibited by the Canons of Lirey in
such a way that the populace believed that it was the authentic shroud of
Jesus Christ. The pope, without absolutely prohibiting the exhibition of the
Shroud, decided after full examination that in the future when it was shown to
the people, the priest should declare in a loud voice that it was not the real
shroud of Christ, but only a picture made to represent it. The authenticity of
the documents connected with this appeal is not disputed.
>> (1917 Catholic Encyclopedia)
> >
> > so, if Papa sez it's a 14th c. painting, that should put an end to the
Questio.
> >
> > for myself, i thank Dog that that's settled.
>
> Well, except that you're probably expected to regard Clement VII as an
antipope - "France, Scotland, Castile, Aragon, Navarre, Portugal, Savoy,
Denmark, Norway, and some minor German states acknowledged his authority". It
doesn't say anything about the USA.
>
> (Your two paragraphs contradict each other. "Clement VI" in the first
paragraph should either be "Clement VII" and be read in the light of the
second paragraph, or else read "Urban VI".)
>
> John Briggs
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|