medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I myself am learning, from this exchange, a great deal both about Prof. Pfaff's book and about the various approaches to the new-ish but burgeoning field of historical liturgical scholarship.
jbw
> -----Original Message-----
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of SHERRY L REAMES
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:02 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] First Impressions: Pfaff - The Liturgy in Medieval England: A
> History
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Dear John,
>
> Pfaff begins his preface with a paragraph that explains the reasoning behind
> the book's title, and defines its subject more fully than a brief title can. Here's
> the key sentence, to my mind: "To call it _The Liturgical Books of Medieval
> England_ would misrepresent what is attempted: a genuinely historical account
> of what can be known about the Latin liturgy as used in England during the
> middle ages, based primarily . . . on evidence drawn from the surviving service
> books and fragments." (p. xiii) He is exceptionally careful and meticulous in
> the inferences he draws from the surviving evidence, and that's part of what I
> admire about his scholarship.
>
> I don't have time to explain all the ways in which I'm finding the book useful for
> my own purposes; that would require a long essay, since I've been finding
> something helpful on almost every page. But here's the condensed version. I'm
> doing research on English liturgical manuscripts (esp. the hagiographical texts
> that survive in breviaries)-- trying to relate the manuscripts to each other on
> the basis of their texts, as well as their provenance and date (where those can
> be determined), and to figure out why even the manuscripts of a given Use
> show such enormous diversity with regard to their lessons on saints. I'm
> learning a lot from Pfaff's expertise on both the
> manuscripts and the church history behind them, and I'm also benefiting greatly
> from his general discussions of methodology (in such sections as "Some
> principles concerning evidence" and the excursus on "method in the comparison
> in liturgical texts").
>
> As for the lack of a bibliography, I've noticed that many academic presses no
> longer allow their books to include both detailed footnotes and a bibliography.
> Given that choice, I'll gladly skip the bibliography-- especially when the
> footnotes are as full and informative as Pfaff's tend to be.
>
> If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest that we do so off the list.
> There's no reason to keep subjecting the rest of the list members to our
> disagreements.
>
> Sherry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 12:58 pm
> Subject: Re: [M-R] First Impressions: Pfaff - The Liturgy in Medieval England: A
> History
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > Yes, I'm sorry too :-)
> >
> > But you haven't addressed my central concern (also that of the only
> > customer review so far on Amazon.co.uk): that the subject of the book
> > is the primary sources and secondary literature for the study of the
> > liturgy in medieval England, rather than it being a history of that
> > liturgy itself.
> >
> > I should be grateful if you could explain exactly *how* the book is
> > useful to your own work, as that was something which I couldn't quite
> > understand; despite its length the book doesn't seem to me to treat
> > any particular topic in sufficient detail to be likely to satisfy
> > specialists. Do you have any comment on the absence of a bibliography,
> > and how that might affect your use of the book?
> >
> > I rather feel that a compilation of flaws and omissions would be a
> > melancholy exercise, best left to reviewers. I see no prospect of
> > future printings.
> >
> > John Briggs
> >
> > ---- SHERRY L REAMES <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> > >
> > > Dear John,
> > >
> > > I'm sorry to hear that you're finding Richard Pfaff's book so
> > disappointing. From my perspective it's enormously useful-- perhaps
> > because my own work, like his, is focused primarily on liturgical
> > texts, and especially on the many different medieval versions of those
> > texts that survive in various manuscripts and have never been printed.
> > Given your own interest in the music and in the early printed
> > editions, you are in a good position to see flaws and omissions that
> > occurred neither to Pfaff nor to me (or others who read his book
> > before publication).
> > >
> > > If you would like to notify him about errors that should be
> > corrected in the next printing, you might send him a letter in care of
> > Cambridge University Press. Or just send him an email-- his address
> > is still [log in to unmask] .
> > >
> > > Sherry Reames
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:38 pm
> > > Subject: [M-R] First Impressions: Pfaff - The Liturgy in Medieval
> > England: A History
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >
> > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> > culture
> > > >
> > > > I have finally received my copy - I had to pre-order from Amazon
> > to
> > > > get anything like a sensible discount, which meant a considerable
> >
> > > > delay while my copy crossed the Atlantic twice!
> > > >
> > > > I have to say that my first impressions are not favourable. Some
> > > > variation on "glued binding" is not at all suitable for a heavy
> > book
> > > > of over 600 pages. There is no bibliography - there is a list of
> > > > "Bibliographical Abbreviations", but needless to say, not all
> > > > abbreviated references are included, so the index has to be
> > pressed
> > > > into service to find the first occurrence where the reference
> > should
> > > > be spelled out. At which point we discover that the prefatory
> > matter
> > > > is not indexed...
> > > >
> > > > But the major concern is that it does not do what it says on the
> > tin:
> > > > it is NOT 'a' (and certainly not 'the') history of the medieval
> > > > English liturgy in any recognisable sense of the term. It is
> > rather a
> > > > chronologically arranged commentary on medieval liturgical texts
> > and
> > > > their editions. It is readable enough, but only really
> > comprehensible
> > > > if you already know what the author is writing about. I have only
> > just
> > > > started reading, but I have yet to encounter any actual liturgy.
> > In
> > > > order to avoid any sense of Whiggish progress, the story just
> > peters
> > > > out as the Reformation is approached. There is an alarming
> > footnote on
> > > > page 1: "The Latin service books printed c.1554-57, during the
> > reign
> > > > of Mary Tudor, are not part of our concern."
> > > >
> > > > I rather rashly stated, in response to a query about the publicity
> >
> > > > bally-hoo: "Actually, Sherry L. Reames is best qualified to
> > pronounce
> > > > such a book as "major" and "authoritative" - just as Richard W.
> > Pfaff
> > > > is certainly the best qualified to write it." I would now wish to
> >
> > > > reconsider my position (probably on both counts) - and perhaps recant.
> > > >
> > > > All consideration of music has been excluded. This has had one
> > > > unfortunate effect which Sherry Reames should have picked up when
> >
> > > > reading the Sarum sections: Pfaff makes no reference to - indeed
> > seems
> > > > to be completely unaware of - Nick Sandon's "Use of Salisbury". As
> > the
> > > > six volumes so far published represent a critical edition of the
> > > > Temporale of the Mass (words and music, rubrics translated into
> > > > English), it can hardly be ignored by anyone writing on the Sarum
> > Use
> > > > (or so I thought...) The treatment of the "Missa in Capitulo" in
> > the
> > > > second edition of volume 2 would have spared Pfaff his rather
> > tortured
> > > > discussion on p.420 (Sandon may not be right, but he makes more
> > > > sense!) And it is musical considerations which make sense of the
> > > > gradings of feasts, something which Pfaff seems to find puzzling.
> > > >
> > > > There is an inexplicable howler in a footnote on p.426: "There
> > were
> > > > two prior printings of this 'Great Breviary,'" [...] "and one of
> > the
> > > > Sarum antiphonal (in two vols, only the winter volume being
> > extant)."
> > > > The two volumes of the Sarum antiphonal were, of course, printed
> > in
> > > > 1519 and 1520 respectively; the 1520 (summer) volume is not only
> > > > extant, but Harper (Forms and Orders) lists its contents, while
> > Frere
> > > > (Antiphonale Sarisburiense) gives the locations of copies!
> > > >
> > > > Pfaff claims to have taken account of literature published
> > "through
> > > > 2006", but is unaware of Gerald Bray's "Records of Convocation" -
> >
> > > > which rather vitiates his discussion of Wilkins' "Concilia" (p.28).
> > > >
> > > > But I come back to my original main point: it is not in any sense
> > a
> > > > history of the liturgy, and not a book for the non-specialist,
> > > > although it is hard to see how much use it is likely to be for the
> >
> > > > specialist (especially without a bibliography...)
> > > >
> > > > John Briggs
> > > >
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