medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Richard, or anyone else who may know,
I was once told that Joachim predicted the end of the world in the year
1260, but I have looked for a reference to this several times without
finding it. Is this true? And if so, where does one look for it?
Cheers,
Jim
Richard Landes wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> joachim represents the renewal of millennial thinking (banned by
> augustine but widely practised unofficially) among christian elites.
> his version of the millennium lends itself to a strong
> "transformative" apocalyptic scenario in which the transition from one
> "age" into the next (from the "last" to the "millennial") occurs
> through a largely non-violent process of human self-transcendence. as
> such it can (and did) make it under the "political" radar for
> squelching millennialism.
>
> the resulting vision, which is capacious, tolerant, even, as rt lerner
> has argued, unusually philo-semitic, has fed much of the
> transformative (and other) subsequent millennial traditions, including
> various anabaptist and quaker-style apostolic apocalyptic fervor.
>
> it is perhaps the single most important contributor to what is known
> in some circles as post-millennialism (jesus comes after we start the
> millennium by our faith). this includes the wide range of messianic
> scientific movements (eg bacon, artificial intelligence, artificial
> life) and peace movements (i think that goes back to the peace of god).
>
> the impact of this kind of thinking on modern progessive thought is
> substantial if largely implicit and understudied (eg on messianic
> socialism/communism).
>
> much of the modern human rights community develops from and
> rearticulates this western transformative millennial stream.
>
> r
>
> On Dec 1, 2009, at 7:12 PM, Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture
>>
>> Hello Mata,
>> I still have a vintage copy of an American tabloid called The Globe
>> from 2004 which claims as a headline that the Antichrist will run for
>> president. And wouldn't you know it: George W. Bush did run. What
>> might be more interesting to ascertain is the last U.S. presidential
>> election that *didn't* engender apocalyptic hype. It is, perhaps,
>> befitting of Obama that he was related to the relatively
>> sophisticated Joachim of Fiore, rather than, say, the definitely
>> overdone Nostradamus. Apparently, the origin of newspapers, back in
>> the 17th century -- and re. the US of A, at the instigation of
>> Quakers -- was directly related to ferreting out signs of the End
>> Times and apocalyptic prognostications. The Middle Ages, it would
>> seem, is still, in some respects, alive and well!
>> Cheers,
>> Jim
>>
>> Mata Kimasitayo wrote:
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>> After reading in The Mediaeval Review the following
>>> Selge, Kurt-Victor, ed. Joachim von Fiore, <i>Psalterium decem
>>> cordarum</i>. MGH Quellen zur Geistesgeschichte des Mittelalters, bd.
>>> 20. Hannover: Hahnsche Buchhandlung, 2009. Pp. ccxcvii, 467. Euros
>>> 75. ISBN: 9783775210201.
>>> which I expect others got in their mailboxes recently too, I was
>>> discussing
>>> Joachim with a friend which led me to suggest that it wouldn't
>>> surprise me
>>> if there were a reasonably good Wiki entry sub Joachim (on that see
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore) - I checked but I did
>>> find
>>> something which surprised me, viz.:
>>> 2008 US presidential campaign hoax
>>> Recently, a hoax has been circulating that Barack Obama
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama> referred to Gioacchino
>>> da Fiore, or Joachim of Fiore, three times in his campaign speeches
>>> during the 2008 presidential election
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_presidential_election>^[4]
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore#cite_note-3> . He is
>>> said to have spoken of him as a /master of contemporary
>>> civilization/ who had sought to create a better world. Of course, no
>>> citation in any actual speech of Obama's quoting or mentioning
>>> Joachim has been produced. However, there has been renewed popular
>>> interest in da Fiore. In 2009 Father Raniero Cantalamessa
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raniero_Cantalamessa>, preacher to the
>>> Pontifical Household
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontifical_Household>, gave a lecture
>>> to Pope Benedict XVI
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI> and the papal
>>> household, restating the Roman Catholic Church's view that
>>> Gioacchino da Fiore was a heretic. ^[5]
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore#cite_note-4> ^[6]
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore#cite_note-5>
>>> [1- 3 below correspond to 4 -6 above]
>>>
>>> 1. *^ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore#cite_ref-3>*
>>> "Italy: Obama invited to visit land of monk who inspired him
>>>
>>> <http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/CultureAndMedia/?id=1.0.2442653602>"
>>>
>>> (in English). /AKI/ (Adnkronos International - Italy). 28 August
>>> 2008.
>>>
>>> http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/CultureAndMedia/?id=1.0.2442653602.
>>>
>>> Retrieved 2009-03-30. 2. *^
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore#cite_ref-4>*
>>> Owen, Richard (March 27, 2009). "Medieval monk hailed by Barack
>>> Obama was a heretic, says Vatican
>>>
>>> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5987457.ece>".
>>> The Times.
>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5987457.ece.
>>> Retrieved 2009-03-27. 3. *^
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore#cite_ref-5>*
>>> "Vatican raps Obama medieval mystic
>>>
>>> <http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-03-27_127338901.html>"
>>>
>>> (in English). ANSA
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenzia_Nazionale_Stampa_Associata>,
>>> Italy. 2009-03-27.
>>>
>>> http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-03-27_127338901.html.
>>>
>>> Retrieved 2009-03-27.
>>> Does anyone know know anything about this business, have any insight
>>> into what it is all about ? It is all news to me & I myself could
>>> not be more astonished to stumble over this !
>>> Mata
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