medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Thank you Francis, - no doubt that Bernard was making an allusion to
Augustines words "Ille de vestra corona dubitaverit" - it makes it
a lot more easy to handle for me. When we are past 1400 in Northern
France is Augustine something that has been there "forever".
And thanks to George Brown for his excellent summary of the present
state of historical research (much in line with the article "Bethlehemitischer
Kindermord" in Lex. f. Theol. u. Kirche).
What "really happened" is always interesting, but it belongs to a different
line of scholarship than mine.
I try to understand what people in the 15th cent. did know and believe in,
and my problem is that someone in Northern France and Flanders had
decided to remove the line "Omnes sancti innocentes - orate pro nobis"
from the litany, where it normally precedes the Prothomartyr Stephanus.
Prosper Guéranger did make an elegant evasion of traditional docmatics
by claiming that it was a deliberate act of God to grant the innocent children
the immediate glory in Heaven "for the sake of his son". As far as I recall
it were the children at that time still counted in "thousands" (by tradition).
San Paolo fuori le Mura in Rome did claim to have the bodies of some
of the "Innocents", and part of the relics were later transferred by pope
Sixtus V, to Santa Maria Maggiore to be close to the cradle of Christ.
But that is another story. We might have an opportunity to comment on
it when John Dillon is posting the "Saints of the Day" for 28th December.
Thanks to everybody
Erik Drigsdahl
At 1:46 +0000 11/12/09, Francis Murphy wrote:
>Not sure that this will be of much help, but it's not obvious to me
>that St Bernard necessarily had a specific antagonist in mind; his
>words seem to echo St Augustine on the same theme:
>
>"O parvuli beati, modo nati, numquam tentati, nondum luctati, iam
>coronati! Ille de vestra corona dubitaverit in passione pro Christo,
>qui etiam Baptismum parvulis prodesse non existimat Christi. Non
>habebatis quidem aetatem, qua in Christum passurum crederetis: sed
>habebatis carnem, in qua pro Christo passuro passionem sustineretis.
>Nullo modo istos infantes desereret gratia Salvatoris infantis, qui
>venerat quaerere quod perierat, non solum in carne nascendo, verum
>etiam in cruce pendendo [ad inferos descendendo, et in caelis
>ascendendo, et ad dexteram Patris sedendo]. Nam qui potuit natus
>habere praedicatores Angelos, narratores caelos, adoratores Magos,
>potuit et illis ne pro eo hic morerentur praestare, si sciret illa
>morte perituros, et non potius maiore felicitate victuros. Absit,
>absit, ut ad liberandos homines [Christus] veniens, de illorum praemio
>qui pro eo interficerentur nihil egerit, qui pendens in ligno pro eis
>a quibus interficiebatur oravit." (Sermo 373, PL 39, 1664).
>
>A PDF of the Migne can be downloaded here: http://bit.ly/7sEfi5
>
--
___________________________________________
Erik Drigsdahl CHD Center for Haandskriftstudier
Kapelvej 25B 3.tv. E-mail: <[log in to unmask]>
DK-2200 Copenhagen N http://www.chd.dk
Phone: +45 + 3537 2047
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