medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Now, that is Christian rhetoric! Moving, and beautiful.
GHB
On Dec 10, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Francis Murphy wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> Not sure that this will be of much help, but it's not obvious to me
> that St Bernard necessarily had a specific antagonist in mind; his
> words seem to echo St Augustine on the same theme:
>
> "O parvuli beati, modo nati, numquam tentati, nondum luctati, iam
> coronati! Ille de vestra corona dubitaverit in passione pro Christo,
> qui etiam Baptismum parvulis prodesse non existimat Christi. Non
> habebatis quidem aetatem, qua in Christum passurum crederetis: sed
> habebatis carnem, in qua pro Christo passuro passionem sustineretis.
> Nullo modo istos infantes desereret gratia Salvatoris infantis, qui
> venerat quaerere quod perierat, non solum in carne nascendo, verum
> etiam in cruce pendendo [ad inferos descendendo, et in caelis
> ascendendo, et ad dexteram Patris sedendo]. Nam qui potuit natus
> habere praedicatores Angelos, narratores caelos, adoratores Magos,
> potuit et illis ne pro eo hic morerentur praestare, si sciret illa
> morte perituros, et non potius maiore felicitate victuros. Absit,
> absit, ut ad liberandos homines [Christus] veniens, de illorum praemio
> qui pro eo interficerentur nihil egerit, qui pendens in ligno pro eis
> a quibus interficiebatur oravit." (Sermo 373, PL 39, 1664).
>
> A PDF of the Migne can be downloaded here: http://bit.ly/7sEfi5
>
>
> 2009/12/10 Erik Drigsdahl <[log in to unmask]>:
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> As we are closing in on the holidays must I already now ask a
>> question.
>> There are certain indications in my material (mid 15th c.) that
>> some people
>> were sceptic as to the justification for considering the "Innocent
>> Children"
>> from Bethlehem (Matthew Ch.II) as real "Christian saints and
>> martyrs".
>> Miniatures depicting the "Massacre of the Innocents" are so common,
>> that it never has occurred to me that there could be a problem here.
>>
>> Already Saint Bernard did argue the case in a sermon (below), but
>> against
>> who did he direct his arguments?
>> I only have a French translation of his text, but there are
>> certainly some
>> on this List who can furnish a more specific reference, and
>> probably also
>> a version in English.
>>
>> All other relevant texts discussing this problem are of course more
>> than
>> welcome. It is the only relevant text I can find here in my own
>> library.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Erik Drigsdahl
>>
>> Bernard of Clairvaux: (quotation from a sermon for the 28. December)
>> " . . . dans le bienheureux Jean [evang.] nous remarquons seulement
>> la volonté du Martyre; et dans les bienheureux Innocents, l'oeuvre
>> seule du Martyre.
>> Mais qui doutera, néan-moins de la couronne obtenue par ses enfants?
>> Demanderez-vous où sont leurs mérites pour cette couronne?
>> Demandez plutôt à Hérode le crime qu'ils ont commis pour être ainsi
>> moissonnés?
>> La bonté du Christ sera-t -elle vaincue par la cruauté d'Hérode?
>> Ce roi impie a pu mettre à mort des enfants innocents:
>> et le Christ ne pourrait couronner ceux qui ne sont morts
>> qu'a cause de lui? . . . " [from Dom P. Guéranger: "L'Année
>> Liturgique - Le Temps de Noël, Tome I, XXVIII Décembre (10th ed.,
>> Paris 1890, p.361)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ___________________________________________
>> Erik Drigsdahl CHD Center for Haandskriftstudier
>> Kapelvej 25B 3.tv. E-mail: <[log in to unmask]>
>> DK-2200 Copenhagen N http://www.chd.dk
>> Phone: +45 + 3537 2047
>>
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>
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George Hardin Brown
Professor of English emeritus
Department of English, Bldg. 460
Stanford University
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