medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
But I think one can change from the "militia terrena" to the "militia
Christi". Then - this is evident - you must not shed blood. Saint
Ulrich of Augsburg, a so called "Adelsheiliger", was 955 on the
battlefield, on horse, but in his episcopal robes. As a saint
according the life of St. Patrick you can like Mose provide for
victory, not fighting in person with weapons, but with prayers. We
know, that these are idealistic examples ...
k
Am 28.07.2009 um 17:20 schrieb John Shinners:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> Gratian would seem to rule out knights being ordained. In
> Distinctio 50, c. 5 he says:
>
> "Clericum, qui paganum occiderit, non oportet ad maiorem gradum
> prouehi, qui carere debet etiam acquisito, homicida enim est. Nam
> cum discreti sint milites seculi a militibus ecclesiae, non conuenit
> militem ecclesiae militare seculo, per quod ad effusionem sanguinis
> necesse sit peruenire."
>
> ("It is not fitting for a cleric who has killed a pagan to advance
> to a higher order, which he should be deprived of even if he has
> achieved it, since this is homicide. For since secular soldiers/
> knights should be distinct from the soldiers/knights of the church,
> it does not suit a soldier of the church to fight for the secular
> world, from which the spilling of blood would result of necessity.")
>
> This is consistent with Lateran IV's later ruling (canon 18) that
> clerics should not be involved in occupations that involve bloodshed
> nor preside at occasions–judicial ordeals or executions–where blood
> is shed.
>
> A story Joinville tells about Louis IX springs to mind. A cleric
> killed 3 robbers--one with a crossbow, another by chopping off his
> leg, the third with a sword cut to the head ("he split it to the
> teeth"). He was brought before Louis. "Sir clerk," said the king,
> "your courage has lost you your chance for the priesthood; but for
> your courage I retain you in my pay, and you shall accompany me
> overseas."
>
> Among the Templar Knights, if I remember correctly, they had a
> separate grade of chaplains to minister the order's spiritual needs.
>
> Best,
> John
>
> ------------------------------------------
> John Shinners
> Professor of Humanistic Studies
> Saint Mary's College
> Notre Dame, Indiana 46556
> Phone: 574-284-4494 or 574-284-4534
> Fax: 284-4855
> www.saintmarys.edu/~hust
>
> "Learn everything. Afterwards you will see that nothing is
> superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon Cannon <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 23:49:18 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Nothing 'chivalric' about medieval priests
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
>
> Of course. To me it's a perfect example of the ellision between a
> chivalrous brotherhood and a religious one.
>
>
>
> I wonder whether the Knights could be priested??
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:35:58 -0700
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Nothing 'chivalric' about medieval priests
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
>
>
>
> I read the posts rapidly and perhaps for that reason saw no mention
> of the Knights Templar. Or do they not "count" for some reason? I
> lost track of the original question and it may have concerned only
> those priests who were not members of religious orders.
> MG
>
> Marjorie Greene
> http://medrelart.shutterfly.com/
>
>
>
>
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