I find this all fascinating, Kasper. It's a wonder - on hearing specific Finish sounds - that James Joyce did not take up Finnish!
National Network Broadcasting - TV & Radio - in the US, anyway, has the consequence of taking texture out of the sounding of common 'American English'. Kids begin to emmulate, etc. And Higher Education also has a unifying tendency to pasteurize the tongue in my sense of it. My impression is that what were once languages whose inflections were rooted in responding to natural landscapes now to respond to a whole different set of 'non-folk fields.'
But thanks for offering your ear to the Finnish.
Stephen V
http://stephenvincent.net/blog/
--- On Thu, 2/12/09, Peter Ciccariello <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Peter Ciccariello <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: a poem in finnish
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 8:37 AM
I love that - "sataa lunta" (lit. '[it's] raining snow')*,
and the idea
*lumi soi*, that snow can "ring" or has a sound. In English, of
course, we
only have things like "softly falling snow", characteristically
devoid of
sound, in fact implying a gentle hushed silence.
- Peter
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:49 PM, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> I'm glad you all like the sound of it!
> Peter I may get to work on a little translation as soon as I have time.
but
> what interests me most here, as a kind of aspiring translator myself, is a
> syntactic difference between english & finnish concerning the word, or
> rather the verb, "(to) snow". [not light Peter, finnish
isn't quite that
> Romance-ic!]
> there is no such verb in finnish (which is fascinating considering the
> amount of snow this country usually boasts every wintertime), and instead
> we
> have to say "sataa lunta" (lit. '[it's] raining
snow')*. the three similar
> words in the first stanza are my way of bringing this to light, they are
> each an attempt to verbify 'snow'. the basic form is
"lumi", and the
> suffixes utilised here are all in use in finnish, but in very distinct
> morphophonemic settings (e.g. "sure*ttaa*" [feel sad/badly] from
'suru'
> [sorrow]; "kil*isee*" [(it) chimes/jingles] from
'kili(nä)' [onomatopoeia];
> and "hapar*oi*" [(he) fumbles] or "musis*oi*" [makes
music]). there is also
> a not-especially-subtle pun in *lumisoi* with its constructed nature; if
it
> were separated into two words (*lumi soi*) it would be a phrase meaning
> "the
> snow rings" (or chimes or sings or makes some other pleasant/musical
> sound).
>
> as a matter of fact the poem is full of onomatopoeic devices; the rest are
> actual instead of constructed forms, and many refer exclusively to sounds
> in
> addition to working for assonance in the poem. finnish has a wider
> repertoire of sound-words than english does, and though the words all
refer
> to real sounds, it would be nearly impossible to explain some of the words
> without giving a demonstration of it -- and even then the context is
> all-important. for instance *riekkua* has the meaning of 'celebrate
> (loudly)', with a negative connotation -- but the aural element comes
from
> the association with several similar sound-words (*raikua* [to blare forth
> a
> long distance]*, kiekua* [(cock)crow]*, kaikua* [echo]*, karjua* [yell
> aggressively] &c.). so the phrase *kitara riekkuu* literally means
"the
> guitar celebrates loudly", but in the context it takes on a much more
> abstract & purely aural feeling.
>
> I'm not sure how much of this is of interest to anyone, especially
since
> I'm
> not any good at explaining myself with any sensible brevity; but these are
> things that interest me a great deal anyway. it's much more
instinctive
> than
> all this explanation would let on, and in another sense I dislike talking
> about it because its revelation can only be scientific/linguistic that
way.
> but I don't mind aesthetic science (!?).
>
> I'll hush up & do my translation homework now. buh bye.
>
> * the reverse is true for the idea of wind blowing; in finnish the english
> sentence "the wind is blowing outside" is "*ulkona
tuulee*".
>
> KS
>
>
>
>
>
> 2009/2/11 Peter Ciccariello <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > Unfortunately Babelfish does not translate from Finnish. I would love
to
> > see
> > the English of this.
> > "lumettaa, lumisee, lumisoi - light? Perhaps?? It is a pleasure
to
> ponder,
> > fascinated buy the mystery of language...
> >
> >
> > Thank you for this Kasper
> >
> > - Peter
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 6:24 AM, kasper salonen
<[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > for the many years I've written poetry, english has always
been the
> > > language
> > > I've used & into which I've delved to find new ways
of expressing
> > ________.
> > > but I adore finnish for its phonology, the possibilities for
assonance
> &
> > > consonance & alliteration are innumerable, even more
available than
> those
> > > of
> > > english. the compounding nature of its nouns & the
mutability of its
> > verbs
> > > also makes it a very interesting language to write poetry in, as
long
> as
> > > the
> > > point of view is interesting enough (i.e. approach). so I've
written a
> > > draft
> > > of a poem in finnish, and I'll share it here with you
despite the fact
> > that
> > > nobody on this list will understand it (Patrick will probably
babelfish
> > it,
> > > as he is wont). I may do a translation at some point, and maybe
the
> > sounds
> > > will amuse you. point is I want this out there somewhere other
than my
> > > notebook. I read it the other night to one or two people I know
in the
> > bar
> > > I
> > > frequent, and they liked it. one guy said it left a smile on his
face
> --
> > > this coming from someone not versed at all in verse. anyway here
it is.
> > it
> > > has no name.
> > >
> > >
> > > ulkona lumettaa,
> > > lumisee, lumisoi--
> > > ja nyt ei enää.
> > >
> > > raitiovaijerit pilkkovat kuun
> > > kuin pyöreän juustokiekon,
> > > kadun kitara riekkuu sohjossa santaisesti,
> > > naristen ja märästi,
> > > härkätien kitinää ja kipinää--
> > >
> > > ja mahaansa muriseva taivas
> > > kuin rappuni naapurin kuorsaus
> > > tai nälkaisen kaiku.
> > >
> > >
> > > KS
> > >
> >
>
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