Points systems or sin bins are unnecesarily complicated. Money is common currency (duh) to everyone. Complex, new or unusual library procedures put people off. Whether a points system is fair or justified is by the by: users will see it as more red tape to deal with.
Let's keep our libraries iconic.
It's good that this discussion is taking place though. The ethics of public library fines is an interesting area.
Rob Westwood
Training and Outreach Coordinator
NHS Education for Scotland
Clifton House
Clifton Place
Glasgow
G3 7LD
Fax: 0141 352 2801
>>> "Usher, John" <[log in to unmask]> 8/11/2008 10:53 >>>
And Mr Potts also hit's the nail on the head.
I recall - 30 years ago - a library service who had dropped fines reinstating them to improve the stock recovery rate (which was abysmal), on the basis that people don't value 'free goods' - it worked! This is not new - what goes around, comes around.
I suspect that fines are often informally 'waived' by staff in many circumstances (but that may not be admitted) - sometimes in part to overcome relatively 'hard' settings in LMSs which don't lend themselves to the sort of leeway David seeks.
The Penalty Points system seems a real opportunity - bit like an Ice Hockey 'Sin Bin' - but can we implement it?
I alluded to recovery procedures in my earlier email - where are we with that? Book Recovery Officers seem to have largely gone out of fashion (deemed not 'Cost Effective') - who still has them? How many libraries put outstanding fines/charges through debt recovery processes? (e.g. corporate 'Sundry Debtors' systems).
And - like it or not - changes to the way we work could have real impact on LMS design. Having worked to try to reconcile an LMS with a PC Booking system, and with the prospect of trying to do the same to Self-Service, I know that it there are an infinite number of ways to define 'Defaulter', and no two systems do it the same way. I think, David, with his background, will appreciate this only too well. If we put manual 'fudges' in place to work round that
Fines (and I still say they're actually charges, but we can't call them that) are but one tool in the management of customers and stock.
So I come back to my original point - do we know what we want to achieve, and are we all agreed? The debate here suggests not.
As the saying goes:
If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there.
What is 'Best Practice' in the field?
A bit of process analysis and 'Business Process Reengineering' based on service drivers might work wonders.
JU
John Usher
ICT Development Manager
Islington Library & Cultural Services
Islington Council
Central Library
2 Fieldway Crescent
LONDON N5 1PF
Tel: 020 7527 6920
Mobile: 07825 098 223
Fax: 020 7527 6926
Alternative contact: Michelle Gannon - 020 7527 6907
www.islington.gov.uk
> How to get to Central Library: http://www.islington.gov.uk/Education/Libraries/Local/Central.asp
>
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of David Potts
Sent: 11 August 2008 10:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LIS-PUB-LIBS] Fines etc
I think Ciara's contribution gets to the heart of the matter. The customer experience is crucial and clearly her experiences, and those of her neighbour, were not positive ones.
Does anyone on this list work for a library service that does not impose fines at all?
I'm also interested to know if anyone has tried (or indeed currently uses) a system that does not immediately impose a financial penalty for late returns?
I remember hearing about a university library that had a penalty points system. I believe it worked by users being allowed to accrue so many penalty points before being defaulted, and if that limit was ever reached, the default was removed by a single flat rate payment (i.e. not per item fine). Again, I believe this was a low token payment (perhaps £5?). I think this greatly reduced the number of times a financial penalty was imposed.
Defaulters who continually refused to return stock (usually for items required by other users) became part of the standard stock recovery procedures.
So, that's my basic question. Is there an alternative to fines so that we don't disenchant people like Ciara's neighbours?
Best wishes,
David
David Potts
Project Manager - Libraries
The Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA)
Floor 1, Grosvenor House
14 Bennetts Hill
Birmingham B2 5RS
0121 345 7316
[log in to unmask]
www.mla.gov.uk
David Potts
Project Manager - Libraries
The Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA)
-----Original Message-----
From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ciara Eastell
Sent: 10 August 2008 10:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fines etc
I can speak from a customer perspective. For the last 3 years, whilst working
for The Reading Agency, I have had to pay fines as an ordinary punter at my
local library. On many occasions now I have had to pay fines because, like
most people, I have a life - loads of things to get done in the course of a
day. Remembering to get my books back on time is not always top of my
priorities.
On the last occasion, I had £15 to pay in fines. It made me feel punished,
quite embarrassed to approach library staff and actually quite angry that I
was 'wasting' £15. Of course, I've never really felt this before because I've
had many years as a librarian where I've been able to waive my own fines
(quite legitimitely, I should add).
Faced with such an experience, it's no wonder that an increasing number of
people vote with their feet and choose to buy their books. The experience is
even worse for families - one of my neighbours has 3 children; on their second
time of borrowing from the library they ratcheted up about £30 in fines and
have never been back (either with fines or books).
Ciara Eastell
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