medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Summoned by one in coldish Anchorage, from fairly warmish Ocean City NJ
(but today is overcast and cool, so far), I'll add a couple of cents
worth (not worth much in our inflationary economy!):
Genesis is normally viewed in scholarly circles as the product of
"Ancient Israel" as filtered through the collectors and editors of the
"southern kingdom" of Judah, centered in Jerusalem in the late 7th
century BCE (after the fall of the "northern kingdom" and it's central
city of Samaria in the late 8th century), and the tradents in the
"Babylonian exile" which followed. Thus the final editing is thought to
have taken place in the period of "early Judaism," usually associated
with Ezra and his associates. The Greek translation of the Pentateuch
known as the Septuagint (LXX) probably was done in the 3rd century BCE,
providing the earliest concrete evidence for these texts (other
scriptual texts were rendered into Greek at other times and places --
the "Old Greek" translations later joined to the Pentateuchal LXX).
The short answer, then, is that Genesis was not the construction of
"second Temple Judaism" (what used to be called "late Judaism" -- i.e.
later than the Judaism associated with Ezra, and more recently renamed
"middle Judaism" by one scholar in order to clarify its position between
the period of Ezra ("early Judaism") and the period of "rabbinic
Judaism" (2nd century CE and later). Thus if by "Judaism" one means the
classical rabbinic developments that produced Talmud, Mishnah, etc., the
origin of Genesis is much earlier. If one means the intertestamental
period, Genesis precedes that too. But the final stages of editing may
have taken place in the period of "early Judaism," although most of the
materials used in that editing go back to "ancient Israel" in its
various forms.
End of lecture. The sun is coming out....
Observation/question: my understanding of "original sin" as a Roman
Catholic dogma (as learned in conservative Protestant circles) is that
the big item is the idea that Adam's GUILT transmitted to all subsequent
humans (excepting Jesus, of course), regardless of individual conduct.
Paul in Romans emphasizes the presence of DEATH as proof that all
deserve punishment, whether or not everyone sinned in the same way as
Adam did. An interesting argument, and the trajectory to Augustine's
"original sin" focus (and later) is not difficult to understand.
Bob Kraft, UPenn (and the normally sunny New Jersey shore)
DANIEL T. KLINE wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Are we distinguishing adequately between what one might call 'the fall'
> of humanity (original sin as in 'the earliest sin') and the traditional
> Christian doctrine of the genetic propagation of that 'original sin' to
> all humanity, simply by the fact that we are each also human? I think
> there's quite a difference.
>
> And though this is not my area, to say that Genesis was written by 'the
> Jews,' as if the religious practices of those who wrote Genesis is the
> same as 'the Jews' as we might understand them in the 2nd temple period
> and afterward, let alone the middle ages, is I think quite anachronistic.
>
> Bob Kraft, are you out there? :-)
>
> Best from Anchorage, where it's far too cold and cloudy this summer -
>
> Dan
>
> _________________________________________
> Daniel T. Kline, Ph.D.
> Assoc. Prof. of English & MA Coordinator
> 3211 Providence Drive (PSB 212-C)
> U of Alaska Anchorage
> Anchorage, Alaska 99508
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> The Electronic Canterbury Tales:
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>
> "Fortunately, I keep my feathers
> numbered for just such an emergency."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Joachim, Anne and Immaculate Conception
>
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture
>> "The writing of the book of Genesis was done by Jews. It seems to
>> have
>> reached final form in the 5th C BC."
>>
>> Yes, I am aware of that. But The Original Sin is related in Genesis
>> regardless of its authorship.
>>
>> "I thought Irenaeus invented original sin in the 2nd C AD."
>>
>> If you don't think original sin was "invented" in Genesis, then I
>> suppose the invention trophy goes to Paul in Ch. 5 of Romans:
>>
>> 12 Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin
>> death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.
>> By one man... Adam, from whom we all contracted original sin. 13
>> For until the law sin was in the world: but sin was not imputed,
>> when the law was not. Not imputed... That is, men knew not, or made
>> no account of sin, neither was it imputed to them, in the manner it
>> was afterwards, when they transgressed the known written law of
>> God. 14 But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also
>> who have not sinned, after the similitude of the transgression of
>> Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come. 15 But not as the
>> offence, so also the gift. For if by the offence of one, many died:
>> much more the grace of God and the gift, by the grace of one man,
>> Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one
>> sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto
>> condemnation: but grace is of many offences unto justification. 17
>> For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more
>> they who receive abundance of grace and of the gift and of justice
>> shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as by
>> the offence of one, unto all men to condemnation: so also by the
>> justice of one, unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as by
>> the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners: so also by the
>> obedience of one, many shall be made just. 20 Now the law entered
>> in that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more
>> abound. That sin might abound... Not as if the law were given on
>> purpose for sin to abound: but that it so happened through man's
>> perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition
>> of sin. 21 That as sin hath reigned to death: so also grace might
>> reign by justice unto life everlasting, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
>>
>> MG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
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