medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Wickstrom <[log in to unmask]>
> I would guess, Christopher, that the term "servants of God' would refer to
the Cluniac monks, not only from the a reasonable reading of the context but
because Peter and Paul are called "the holy apostles" in the document; I would
think that description of them would be used in the phrase you cite as well.
impossible to tell, without having the whole context, to see what the
antecedent of "servants of god" might be.
the essential point remains, of course, that Aquitainian Bill here saw himself
as giving the property to the Apostles *directly* --though the text might have
read something like the Marmoutier charters, "...give to SS P&P and the monks
who serve them at Cluny."
as with Suger, ownership was definitely thought of as being in the hands of
the [living] Saints, with the monks only being the custodians (or, to take
Tom's point, the "trustees") for them Holy Guys.
c
> From: Christopher Crockett
> From: John Wickstrom <[log in to unmask]>
>> It may be relevant to note in this regard the famous donation of duke
William of Aquitaine to Cluny: the property was handed over from William's
rule to "the holy apostles Peter and Paul" and to "the protection of the
papacy" but that "the pontiff of the Roman See" was not to "invade the
property of these servants of God...
> question is, who are the "servants of God"?
> the monks of Cluny or Peter & Paul?
> the modren tendency would be to think of the former; but the middlevils,
who
considered themselves to be living in the actual presence of the saints,
would
automatically consider it to be the latter.
> confusing the issue is the last clause, "or constitute any prelate over
them
against their will"
> which, if literally understood to refer to the saints, creates even more
problems for the modren mind.
> c
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