'Georgie Tatter' was a celebrated figure where I grew up. He made a
living from tatting himself and also bought stuff off the kids. Big
place for tatting was the bombed peck: an area of waste land, the
remnants of the former heath, where the corporation and firms dumped
metal refuse, hence a good place for tat. It wasn't an actual bomb
site, but the combination of waste land as in unused space, it was
very green in fact, with the litter of industrialism made it like a
larger version of the WWII bomb-sites. Georgie Tatter held court just
by the Ritz cinema, itself the site of a direct hit, hence green and
strewn with rubble.
'Buy junk, sell antiques' in my poem, btw, is from 'We buy junk and
sell antiques' a sign Alan Fletcher claims he saw somewhere on his
travels. Now last night I wrote about 1950s Brit Sci-fi as 'junk' and
the art-trade appears later in the poem as Andy Warhol so a link seems
there with my 1950s childhood doesn't it? Rember, I said 'totler'
evoked 'toddler' as well as 'totaller'?
Except that I wrote the poem on Sunday and 'totler' interested me as
an +unassigned+ value. Quantum language if I may be so bold.
So perhaps my poem preceded the connections that produced it!

Best

enigmatically

Harold Boy

2008/6/4 Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>:
>> I hadn't thought of that, Rob, do you think there's a career opportunity
>> for me?
>
>       As Young Steptoe or Dell-Boy?
>
>> we used to say 'tatter' in Brum, for people who dealt in scrap, going
>> 'tatting' was to be after junk (or property - the lead off church
>> roofs notoriously) that could be sold to a dealer. I'm sure that has a
>> wider use in that sense than just the Brummagem of my youth.
>> I do know the word has more respectable meanings.
>
> They'd appear to be related, deriving ultimately from "tattered" (late
> 14thC) as the earliest variant recorded in the OED, and both "totter" and
> "tatter" (the latter less common, I'd guess) emerging as slang for a rag and
> bone man in the late 19thC.
>
> Full details below.
>
> (I haven't checked the slang dictionaries, as the OED would seem to be
> fairly comprehensive here.)
>
> Your lead-lifting Brummie tatterer would seem to be a specialised variant of
> the more general totter or tatterer -- a tatterdemalion, perhaps.
>
>           R.
>
> ****************************************************************************
>
> For TOTTER n2, the OED simply has, "See TOT n5.
>
> TOT n5
>
> [Origin unascertained: cf. TAT n.5, v.3]
>
>   A dust-heap picker's name for a bone; whence by extension, anything
> worth picking from a refuse-heap or elsewhere. Hence totter, a rag-and-bone
> collector; totting, dust-heap picking.
>
> 1873 Slang Dict. s.v., 'Tot' is a bone, but chiffoniers and cinder-hunters
> generally are called Tot-pickers nowadays. Totting also has its votaries on
> the banks of the Thames, where all kinds of flotsam and jetsam, from coals
> to carrion, are known as tots. 1880 Law Rep., 5 Q.B.D. 369 The contents of
> the dust-bins consisted chiefly of cinders and ashes and the sweepings of
> the houses, but they also contained a number of articles thrown into them as
> refuse by the occupiers of the houses, and known as 'tots'. 1891 Daily News
> 11 Mar. 3/3 Costermongers, wood-cutters, and 'totters', men who lounged
> about areas in the hope of getting old bottles and things from servants.
> 1910 Lond. City Mission Mag. May 85/2 The Totters. Up betimes, these queer
> people set out by the dozen, with sack or barrow, in quest of rags and
> bones, rubber, and bottles, scrap iron and cast-off clothing. Ibid., When
> all else fails, and one can stoop so low, a day's totting is bound to yield
> the cost of a night's lodging.
>
>
> TAT n5
>
> [Origin uncertain: cf. OE. tættec a rag, and TATTY a.1]
>
>   a. A rag; also (in sing.), poorly made or tasteless clothes. Hence, a
> shabby person, a slut.
>
> 1839 [see POSH n.2 1]. 1851 MAYHEW Lond. Labour I. 424/2 I'll tell you about
> the tat (rag) gatherers; buying rags they call it. 1882 Sydney Slang Dict.
> 9/2 The paper makers get the tats. 1936 N. COWARD To-Night at 8.30 I. 93 You
> should have seen the company: a couple of old tats got up as Elizabethan
> pages. 1947 N. MARSH Final Curtain iv. 53 Do they think it's any catch
> living in a mausoleum with a couple of old tats? 1972 D. GODDARD Blimey!
> (1974) iv. 43 King's Road beckons the well-heeled traveller into a
> cloud-cuckoo land of high-priced tat and gear. 1977 M. DRABBLE Ice Age II.
> 212 She was dressed..in a horrible collection of tata long shiny maroon
> skirt, a baggy flowered blouse, a grey cardigan, and a green cardigan on top
> of that.
>   b. Rubbish, junk, worthless goods. Also transf. and fig.
>
> 1951 W. SANSOM Face of Innocence iv. 55 He was talking of his business in
> Georgian and early Victorian objets d'oeil. He called it tat. 1958 A. WILSON
> Middle Age of Mrs Eliot II. 151 It was filled..with a jumble of pleasing,
> valuable antique furniture and hideous, worthless bric-a-brac... 'I like
> tatt,' he had said. 1967 N. MARSH Death at Dolphin ii. 40 A small shop in
> Walton Street where they sold what he described as: 'Very superior tatt.
> Jacobean purses, stomachers and the odd codpiece.' 1970 'D. HALLIDAY' Dolly
> & Cookie Bird iv. 52 Are they selling tat medals as well? 1971 D. LEES
> Rainbow Conspiracy iii. 38 Oh no! Not that load of old tat. We threw it out
> at afternoon [news] conference. 1976 New Musical Express 12 Feb. 26/3 That
> long deleted album..sounds like a heap of prissy irrelevant whimsical
> lysergic tat with Disney lyrics. 1981 Times Lit. Suppl. 18 Sept. 1060/1 New
> ways of getting the johns to spend their money on previously unsellable old
> tat.
>
>
> TATTY a1
>
> [app. related in form and sense to OE. tættec a rag, a tatter; cf. also TAT
> n.4, which is not evidenced so early, and may be a back-formation.]
>
>   Of hair, tangled, matted; of an animal or skin, shaggy with matted hair.
>
> 1513 DOUGLAS Æneis VII. xii. 63 A felloun bustuus and gret lyoun skyn,
> Terrible and rouch, wyth taty lokyrand haris. 1533 BELLENDEN Livy II. xi.
> (S.T.S.) I. 166 The hare of his berde was lang and taty [v.r. tawty]. 1818
> SCOTT Rob Roy xxxiv, Wha wad hae thought there had been as muckle sense in
> his tatty pow. 1834 CARLYLE in Froude Life (1882) II. xviii. 428 Old
> pollarded..lime trees standing there like giants in tawtie wigs (for the new
> boughs are still young).
>
>
> TATTER n1
>
> Known only from c1400, but evidenced in earlier use by TATTERED a. Of
> Scandinavian origin: cf. ON. *taturr (later Icel. tturr, töturr), pl. tötrar
> tatters, rags, in Norw. dial. totra, pl. totror. In OF. an instance of
> tatereles rags, tatters ('a ces vies tatereles vestues') occurs in Aucassin
> et Nicolette vi.
>  (Notwithstanding similarity of sense, the Norse and Eng. word has no known
> etymological or phonetic connexion with MLG. and LG. talter, pl. talteren,
> taltern, tatters, rags (Brem. Wbch.), whence app. Norw. dial. taltra, pl.
> taltrar.)]
>
>   1. a. An irregularly torn piece, strip, shred, or scrap of cloth or
> similar substance, hanging loose from the main body, esp. of a garment; more
> rarely applied to the separate pieces into which a thing is torn; a rag. In
> pl. often = tattered or ragged clothing; rags.
>  In early quots. applied in contempt to the 'dags' or projecting pieces of
> a slashed garment; in quot. 1470-85 to the sharp points or jags in a
> dragon's tail.
>
> 1402 Pol. Poems (Rolls) II. 69 Of suche wide clothing, tateris and tagges,
> It hirtith myn hert hevyly. 1470-85 MALORY Arthur V. iv. 165 A dredeful
> dragon..his hede..enameled with asure.., his taylle ful of tatters. 1520
> Treat. Galaunt 137 in Ballads fr. MSS. I. 450 With longe taters downe to the
> ars behynde. 1612 ROWLANDS Knaue of Harts 23 A suite of ragges and tatters
> on my backe. 1621 T. WILLIAMSON tr. Goulart's Wise Vieillard 172 To goe
> woolward, in sackcloth, and haire cloth, in totters and ragges. 1686 tr.
> Chardin's Trav. Persia 97 They go Barefoot, and all in Tattars. 1791 MRS.
> RADCLIFFE Rom. Forest ii, The remains of tapestry hung in tatters upon the
> walls. 1840 R. H. DANA Bef. Mast xxv. 82 Furl the sail before it blows to
> tatters. 1873 'OUIDA' Pascarèl I. 25 What does a tatter or two in the dress
> signify? 1884 BOWER & SCOTT De Bary's Phaner. 216 Thin very obscure tatters
> of the ruptured tissue clothe the walls of the mature passage.
>   b. fig. or in fig. context.
>
> 1576 FLEMING Panopl. Epist. 81 Torne to tatters with a thousand tempests of
> troubles. 1602 SHAKES. Ham. III. ii. 11 To see a robustious Pery-wig-pated
> Fellow, teare a Passion to tatters, to verie ragges. 1607 Barley-Breake
> (1877) 5 Then Hate, and Enuie, all to totters went. 1792 COWPER Let. to W.
> Hayley 4 June, Returned from my walk, blown to tatters. 1875 JOWETT Plato
> (ed. 2) I. 189 Philosophers,..who tear arguments to tatters.
>   2. transf. A person wearing tattered or ragged clothes; a
> tatterdemalion. Obs.
>
> c1600 DAY Begg. Bednall Gr. v. (1881) 110 How, mary with a Beggar? mix the
> blood of Strowds with a tatter? a1635 RANDOLPH Hey for Hon. III. i, Well
> spoke, my noble English tatter, Lead up the vanguard. 1637 HEYWOOD Roy. King
> II. viii, What Tatter's that that walkes there?
>
>
>
> TATTER n3
>
> slang.
>
>
> [f. TAT v.3 + -ER1.]
>
>   A refuse-gatherer, a rag-collector. Cf. TOTTER (s.v. TOT n.5). Also
> tatterer.
>
> 1890 BARRÈRE & LELAND Dict. Slang, Tatter (tramps), a rag-gatherer. 1910
> Church Times 15 July, Their occupations being largely that of 'Tatterers'
> i.e. rag and bone and bottle-gatherers, and casual labourers. 1921 Dict.
> Occup. Terms (1927) §970 Tatter,..collects [waste] with a hand-pushed barrow
> or cart. 1969 Telegraph & Argus (Bradford) 16 Oct. 9 He was wearing a dark
> jacket, and light drill trousers. He is believed to be a rag tatter.
>
> TATTERED a,, ppl.a.
>
> [app. orig. f. TATTER n.1 + -ED2: cf. RAGGED a.; subseq. treated as pa.
> pple. implying a vb.: see TATTER v.1]
>
>   1. Having 'tatters', jags, or long pointed projections; denticulated,
> jagged; slashed or laciniated, as a garment. Obs.
>
> c1394 P. Pl. Crede 753 His syre a soutere.., His tee wi toylinge of leer
> tatered as a sawe. 1470-85 MALORY Arthur V. iv. 165 His [a dragon's] taylle
> whiche is al to tatterd sygnefyeth the noble knyghtes of the round table.
> 1501 DOUGLAS Pal. Hon. I. xxv, Dragouns,..With mouthis gapand, forkit
> taillis tatterit.
>   2. Torn or rent so as to hang in tatters; ragged. (See also TOTTERED
> ppl. a. 1.)
>
> 1596 SPENSER F.Q. V. xii. 28 Their garments yet, Being all rag'd and
> tatter'd. 1600 HOLLAND Livy II. xxiii. 58 His apparrell was all to tattered,
> foule and loathsome. 1709 ADDISON Tatler No. 100 3 Crowds of People in
> tattered Garments. 1791 COWPER Odyss. IX. 80 Our tatter'd sail-cloth
> crackled in the wind. 1905 R. GARNETT Shaks. 26 The last year's tattered
> foliage That long ago has rustled to the earth.
>   3. transf.    a. Clad in jagged or slashed garments (obs.).    b. Having
> tattered or ragged garments.
>
> 1340 HAMPOLE Pr. Consc. 1537 Som has air clethyng hyngand als stoles Som gas
> tatird als tatird foles. c1380 WYCLIF Wks. (1880) 148 In here gaye pellure &
> precious clois & wast festis & tatrid squeyeres & oere meyne. 1596 [see
> TOTTERED ppl. a. 1]. 1623 MASSINGER Dk. Milan III. i, To see the tattered'st
> rascals of my troop Drag them out of their closets. ?a1750 Nursery Rime,
> House that Jack Built viii, This is the man all tattered and torn. 1883
> Century Mag. July 419/2 An aged and tattered negro was the mule's
> ring-master.
>   4. Having unkempt dishevelled hair, of irregular length; shaggy. Cf.
> TATTY a.1 Obs.
>
> 1340 [see 3]. c1460 Towneley Myst. i. 137 Now ar we waxen blak as any
> coylle, And vgly, tatyrd as a foylle. 1709 STEELE & SWIFT Tatler No. 70 10
> A..French Mongrel, that was..in a tatter'd Condition, but has now got new
> Hair.
>   5. Of a ship, building, or other solid structure: Dilapidated, battered,
> shattered. Obs. (See also TOTTERED ppl. a. 2.)
>
> 1599 NASHE Lenten Stuffe Wks. (Grosart) V. 277 Nothing of that Castle saue
> tattered ragged walles nowe remaines. 1666 DRYDEN Ann. Mirab. cxxxiv, [He]
> warns his tattered fleet to follow home. 1700 S. L. tr. Fryke's Voy. E. Ind.
> 30 To mend our tattered ships. 1797-8 JANE AUSTEN Sense & Sens. xviii, I do
> not like ruined, tattered cottages.
>   b. Of troops: Routed and broken up, shattered, disintegrated. Obs.
>
> 1675 OTWAY Alcibiades III. i, Their tatter'd troops are scatter'd o'er the
> plain. 1728 MORGAN Algiers I. iii. 40 Where he continued till he had
> recruited his tattered army.
>   Hence tatteredly adv.
>
> 1673 E. BROWN Trav. Germ., etc. (1677) 126 The Windows..being of Glass,
> looked not so tatterdly as the ragged Paper Windows of Florence.
>



-- 
David Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
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