>I hadn't thought of that, Rob, do you think there's a career opportunity
>for me?

        As Young Steptoe or Dell-Boy?

> we used to say 'tatter' in Brum, for people who dealt in scrap, going
> 'tatting' was to be after junk (or property - the lead off church
> roofs notoriously) that could be sold to a dealer. I'm sure that has a
> wider use in that sense than just the Brummagem of my youth.
> I do know the word has more respectable meanings.

They'd appear to be related, deriving ultimately from "tattered" (late 
14thC) as the earliest variant recorded in the OED, and both "totter" and 
"tatter" (the latter less common, I'd guess) emerging as slang for a rag and 
bone man in the late 19thC.

Full details below.

(I haven't checked the slang dictionaries, as the OED would seem to be
fairly comprehensive here.)

Your lead-lifting Brummie tatterer would seem to be a specialised variant of
the more general totter or tatterer -- a tatterdemalion, perhaps.

            R.

****************************************************************************

For TOTTER n2, the OED simply has, "See TOT n5.

TOT n5

[Origin unascertained: cf. TAT n.5, v.3]

    A dust-heap picker's name for a bone; whence by extension, anything
worth picking from a refuse-heap or elsewhere. Hence totter, a rag-and-bone
collector; totting, dust-heap picking.

1873 Slang Dict. s.v., 'Tot' is a bone, but chiffoniers and cinder-hunters
generally are called Tot-pickers nowadays. Totting also has its votaries on
the banks of the Thames, where all kinds of flotsam and jetsam, from coals
to carrion, are known as tots. 1880 Law Rep., 5 Q.B.D. 369 The contents of
the dust-bins consisted chiefly of cinders and ashes and the sweepings of
the houses, but they also contained a number of articles thrown into them as
refuse by the occupiers of the houses, and known as 'tots'. 1891 Daily News
11 Mar. 3/3 Costermongers, wood-cutters, and 'totters', men who lounged
about areas in the hope of getting old bottles and things from servants.
1910 Lond. City Mission Mag. May 85/2 The Totters. Up betimes, these queer
people set out by the dozen, with sack or barrow, in quest of rags and
bones, rubber, and bottles, scrap iron and cast-off clothing. Ibid., When
all else fails, and one can stoop so low, a day's totting is bound to yield
the cost of a night's lodging.


TAT n5

[Origin uncertain: cf. OE. tættec a rag, and TATTY a.1]

    a. A rag; also (in sing.), poorly made or tasteless clothes. Hence, a
shabby person, a slut.

1839 [see POSH n.2 1]. 1851 MAYHEW Lond. Labour I. 424/2 I'll tell you about
the tat (rag) gatherers; buying rags they call it. 1882 Sydney Slang Dict.
9/2 The paper makers get the tats. 1936 N. COWARD To-Night at 8.30 I. 93 You
should have seen the company: a couple of old tats got up as Elizabethan
pages. 1947 N. MARSH Final Curtain iv. 53 Do they think it's any catch
living in a mausoleum with a couple of old tats? 1972 D. GODDARD Blimey!
(1974) iv. 43 King's Road beckons the well-heeled traveller into a
cloud-cuckoo land of high-priced tat and gear. 1977 M. DRABBLE Ice Age II.
212 She was dressed..in a horrible collection of tata long shiny maroon
skirt, a baggy flowered blouse, a grey cardigan, and a green cardigan on top
of that.
    b. Rubbish, junk, worthless goods. Also transf. and fig.

1951 W. SANSOM Face of Innocence iv. 55 He was talking of his business in
Georgian and early Victorian objets d'oeil. He called it tat. 1958 A. WILSON
Middle Age of Mrs Eliot II. 151 It was filled..with a jumble of pleasing,
valuable antique furniture and hideous, worthless bric-a-brac... 'I like
tatt,' he had said. 1967 N. MARSH Death at Dolphin ii. 40 A small shop in
Walton Street where they sold what he described as: 'Very superior tatt.
Jacobean purses, stomachers and the odd codpiece.' 1970 'D. HALLIDAY' Dolly
& Cookie Bird iv. 52 Are they selling tat medals as well? 1971 D. LEES
Rainbow Conspiracy iii. 38 Oh no! Not that load of old tat. We threw it out
at afternoon [news] conference. 1976 New Musical Express 12 Feb. 26/3 That
long deleted album..sounds like a heap of prissy irrelevant whimsical
lysergic tat with Disney lyrics. 1981 Times Lit. Suppl. 18 Sept. 1060/1 New
ways of getting the johns to spend their money on previously unsellable old
tat.


TATTY a1

[app. related in form and sense to OE. tættec a rag, a tatter; cf. also TAT
n.4, which is not evidenced so early, and may be a back-formation.]

    Of hair, tangled, matted; of an animal or skin, shaggy with matted hair.

1513 DOUGLAS Æneis VII. xii. 63 A felloun bustuus and gret lyoun skyn,
Terrible and rouch, wyth taty lokyrand haris. 1533 BELLENDEN Livy II. xi.
(S.T.S.) I. 166 The hare of his berde was lang and taty [v.r. tawty]. 1818
SCOTT Rob Roy xxxiv, Wha wad hae thought there had been as muckle sense in
his tatty pow. 1834 CARLYLE in Froude Life (1882) II. xviii. 428 Old
pollarded..lime trees standing there like giants in tawtie wigs (for the new
boughs are still young).


TATTER n1

Known only from c1400, but evidenced in earlier use by TATTERED a. Of
Scandinavian origin: cf. ON. *taturr (later Icel. tturr, töturr), pl. tötrar
tatters, rags, in Norw. dial. totra, pl. totror. In OF. an instance of
tatereles rags, tatters ('a ces vies tatereles vestues') occurs in Aucassin
et Nicolette vi.
  (Notwithstanding similarity of sense, the Norse and Eng. word has no known
etymological or phonetic connexion with MLG. and LG. talter, pl. talteren,
taltern, tatters, rags (Brem. Wbch.), whence app. Norw. dial. taltra, pl.
taltrar.)]

    1. a. An irregularly torn piece, strip, shred, or scrap of cloth or
similar substance, hanging loose from the main body, esp. of a garment; more
rarely applied to the separate pieces into which a thing is torn; a rag. In
pl. often = tattered or ragged clothing; rags.
  In early quots. applied in contempt to the 'dags' or projecting pieces of
a slashed garment; in quot. 1470-85 to the sharp points or jags in a
dragon's tail.

1402 Pol. Poems (Rolls) II. 69 Of suche wide clothing, tateris and tagges,
It hirtith myn hert hevyly. 1470-85 MALORY Arthur V. iv. 165 A dredeful
dragon..his hede..enameled with asure.., his taylle ful of tatters. 1520
Treat. Galaunt 137 in Ballads fr. MSS. I. 450 With longe taters downe to the
ars behynde. 1612 ROWLANDS Knaue of Harts 23 A suite of ragges and tatters
on my backe. 1621 T. WILLIAMSON tr. Goulart's Wise Vieillard 172 To goe
woolward, in sackcloth, and haire cloth, in totters and ragges. 1686 tr.
Chardin's Trav. Persia 97 They go Barefoot, and all in Tattars. 1791 MRS.
RADCLIFFE Rom. Forest ii, The remains of tapestry hung in tatters upon the
walls. 1840 R. H. DANA Bef. Mast xxv. 82 Furl the sail before it blows to
tatters. 1873 'OUIDA' Pascarèl I. 25 What does a tatter or two in the dress
signify? 1884 BOWER & SCOTT De Bary's Phaner. 216 Thin very obscure tatters
of the ruptured tissue clothe the walls of the mature passage.
    b. fig. or in fig. context.

1576 FLEMING Panopl. Epist. 81 Torne to tatters with a thousand tempests of
troubles. 1602 SHAKES. Ham. III. ii. 11 To see a robustious Pery-wig-pated
Fellow, teare a Passion to tatters, to verie ragges. 1607 Barley-Breake
(1877) 5 Then Hate, and Enuie, all to totters went. 1792 COWPER Let. to W.
Hayley 4 June, Returned from my walk, blown to tatters. 1875 JOWETT Plato
(ed. 2) I. 189 Philosophers,..who tear arguments to tatters.
    2. transf. A person wearing tattered or ragged clothes; a
tatterdemalion. Obs.

c1600 DAY Begg. Bednall Gr. v. (1881) 110 How, mary with a Beggar? mix the
blood of Strowds with a tatter? a1635 RANDOLPH Hey for Hon. III. i, Well
spoke, my noble English tatter, Lead up the vanguard. 1637 HEYWOOD Roy. King
II. viii, What Tatter's that that walkes there?



TATTER n3

slang.


[f. TAT v.3 + -ER1.]

    A refuse-gatherer, a rag-collector. Cf. TOTTER (s.v. TOT n.5). Also
tatterer.

1890 BARRÈRE & LELAND Dict. Slang, Tatter (tramps), a rag-gatherer. 1910
Church Times 15 July, Their occupations being largely that of 'Tatterers'
i.e. rag and bone and bottle-gatherers, and casual labourers. 1921 Dict.
Occup. Terms (1927) §970 Tatter,..collects [waste] with a hand-pushed barrow
or cart. 1969 Telegraph & Argus (Bradford) 16 Oct. 9 He was wearing a dark
jacket, and light drill trousers. He is believed to be a rag tatter.

TATTERED a,, ppl.a.

[app. orig. f. TATTER n.1 + -ED2: cf. RAGGED a.; subseq. treated as pa.
pple. implying a vb.: see TATTER v.1]

    1. Having 'tatters', jags, or long pointed projections; denticulated,
jagged; slashed or laciniated, as a garment. Obs.

c1394 P. Pl. Crede 753 His syre a soutere.., His tee wi toylinge of leer
tatered as a sawe. 1470-85 MALORY Arthur V. iv. 165 His [a dragon's] taylle
whiche is al to tatterd sygnefyeth the noble knyghtes of the round table.
1501 DOUGLAS Pal. Hon. I. xxv, Dragouns,..With mouthis gapand, forkit
taillis tatterit.
    2. Torn or rent so as to hang in tatters; ragged. (See also TOTTERED
ppl. a. 1.)

1596 SPENSER F.Q. V. xii. 28 Their garments yet, Being all rag'd and
tatter'd. 1600 HOLLAND Livy II. xxiii. 58 His apparrell was all to tattered,
foule and loathsome. 1709 ADDISON Tatler No. 100 3 Crowds of People in
tattered Garments. 1791 COWPER Odyss. IX. 80 Our tatter'd sail-cloth
crackled in the wind. 1905 R. GARNETT Shaks. 26 The last year's tattered
foliage That long ago has rustled to the earth.
    3. transf.    a. Clad in jagged or slashed garments (obs.).    b. Having
tattered or ragged garments.

1340 HAMPOLE Pr. Consc. 1537 Som has air clethyng hyngand als stoles Som gas
tatird als tatird foles. c1380 WYCLIF Wks. (1880) 148 In here gaye pellure &
precious clois & wast festis & tatrid squeyeres & oere meyne. 1596 [see
TOTTERED ppl. a. 1]. 1623 MASSINGER Dk. Milan III. i, To see the tattered'st
rascals of my troop Drag them out of their closets. ?a1750 Nursery Rime,
House that Jack Built viii, This is the man all tattered and torn. 1883
Century Mag. July 419/2 An aged and tattered negro was the mule's
ring-master.
    4. Having unkempt dishevelled hair, of irregular length; shaggy. Cf.
TATTY a.1 Obs.

1340 [see 3]. c1460 Towneley Myst. i. 137 Now ar we waxen blak as any
coylle, And vgly, tatyrd as a foylle. 1709 STEELE & SWIFT Tatler No. 70 10
A..French Mongrel, that was..in a tatter'd Condition, but has now got new
Hair.
    5. Of a ship, building, or other solid structure: Dilapidated, battered,
shattered. Obs. (See also TOTTERED ppl. a. 2.)

1599 NASHE Lenten Stuffe Wks. (Grosart) V. 277 Nothing of that Castle saue
tattered ragged walles nowe remaines. 1666 DRYDEN Ann. Mirab. cxxxiv, [He]
warns his tattered fleet to follow home. 1700 S. L. tr. Fryke's Voy. E. Ind.
30 To mend our tattered ships. 1797-8 JANE AUSTEN Sense & Sens. xviii, I do
not like ruined, tattered cottages.
    b. Of troops: Routed and broken up, shattered, disintegrated. Obs.

1675 OTWAY Alcibiades III. i, Their tatter'd troops are scatter'd o'er the
plain. 1728 MORGAN Algiers I. iii. 40 Where he continued till he had
recruited his tattered army.
    Hence tatteredly adv.

1673 E. BROWN Trav. Germ., etc. (1677) 126 The Windows..being of Glass,
looked not so tatterdly as the ragged Paper Windows of Florence.