David and Jasmine
Yes very interesting distinction -
and one that is noted by practitioner historians of witchcraft - I'm
thinking of the "cunning man" Jack Daw for example -
who often points out the importance of "solomonic" grimoires to
eighteenth century witchcraft.
Maybe there is still work to be done on the Saxon and Germano-Celtic
stuff - which is also prone to "political" bias of one sort or another.
Interesting though - that RH "debunks" the neo-pagan view that churches
were built on pre-existing pagan sites
(as indeed they were in the classical world) - whereas for example
practitioner/scholar Jan Fries talks about the ephemeral nature
of Germano/Celtic pagans sites that may not
show up in the archeaological record.
So sometimes neopagan "foundation myths" are not so stupid.
"Love and do what you will"
Mogg
wrote:
> I wonder how much of this relates to the issues of historical and
> cultural specific vs broad conceptions of the Paganism of antiquity.
> eg I think very clearly when you look a Wicca as in terms of
> gnosticism and the hermetic traditions developed through the European
> appropriation of Greek and Egyptian thought (influenced by Arabic and
> Jewish mysticism etc etc) it very clearly has aspects which are
> derived from very ancient origins. I don't think this is in dispute
> by anyone seriously. This is why the OTO and Wicca are often seen as
> very close cousins. I would however doubt that Wicca has the kinds of
> rural English Saxon and Germano-Celtic origins its usually presented
> as having (or for that matter the whole Murray Witch Cult idea) and
> this tends to be the problematic aspect of its publically presented
> history at least in the mainstream. It just doesn't gel with either
> history or the archaeological record with the Celtic and Saxon origins
> it is usually linked with let alone the rural tribal associations
> given to it in public discourse. Cheers
> David
>
> mandrake wrote:
>> Dear All
>>
>> Just a thought on the ancient roots of neo-pagan and modern wiccan
>> ritual -
>> Professor Geof Samuel presented a paper on the parallels between
>> "Tantra" and Wicca at a JSM conference in MK.
>> Wiccans often do acknowledge a connection to "Tantra".
>> If "Tantra" - or more accurately "Kaula" is a late classical, magical
>> tradition - with links to the Mediteranean -
>> then maybe modern Wiccan ritual is not so different to ancient modes
>> afterall?
>> Theories come and go - and this is an area where data has often been
>> suppressed and ignored by academics -
>> so hold onto your paradigms : )
>>
>> "Love and do what you will"
>>
>> Mogg
>>
>> PS: My own slim volume "Tantra Sadhana: a practical introduction to
>> Kaula magick" is just published by Mandrake
>> and I will be discussing and updating some of possible Hermetic
>> elements in Kaula magick at the "Albion OTO Conference" -
>> then on Youtube etc.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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