medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Ms B M Cook <[log in to unmask]>
>> i know not from Breton Kynarts, but is there any possibility that your
"Cinard" could have been "Chenard/Canard/Chenart"?
>> there is a 12th c. family in the Chartrain with that cognomen --several of
the men carried it (the most prominent being a _Paganus qui et canardus_
whose
little brother Udo was abbot of St. Peter's of Chartres, +1150).
>as far as I can tell, in my instance, the names "Cinardus" and "Bernardus"
are alternative Christian names and not Nomen + Cognomen. The chap in question
had a perfectly good territorial "d'Escoublac"
by a "territorial" i assume you mean a [potential] toponym.
alors, the use of toponyms (at this time) was by no means obligatory.
after all, my Chenards are styled, well, Chenard/Canard, not "de Levesvilla."
>a manor on the northern estuary of the Loire close to Guerande and in
territory that was Breton-bretonnant (ie Breton-speaking) at that period.
>Additionally his nephew Robert who was his archdeacon and succeeded him as
bishop (tut tut nepotism ???)
common enough.
what's the problem?
that's what Nepotism was All About, after all.
an Ancient and Respected Tradition.
and a very, very practical and popular one.
it appears that even St. Ivo of Chartres had a nephew or two who found their
way into the cathedral chapter --and No One characterized "Reform" at that
time as much as Ivo did.
>is also "d'Escoublac".
in mid-12th c. Chartres we have a bishop, Godfrey of Leves (different from
--but perhaps perversely related to Levesville) sucessor to St. Ivo and one of
the greatest churchmen of his age, long serving, Papal Legate, friend of Suger
and St. Bernie, etc., who was suceeded by his nephew (and archdeacon), Goslen,
his sister's son.
she had married a guy from Muzy, a place not far away, but just over the
border in Normandy.
Goslen is frequently styled --in the modren sources-- "of Leves", but he's not
a Leveses at all, he's a Muzy. as far as i can remember, he's never styled
"de Leugis" in any contemporary document.
seems to me that the only way your nephew could be a "d'Escoublac" is if he
was a son of one of your Bernard Cinardus' brothers --i.e., if he was a Home
Boy.
> I am pretty sure in my own mind that "Cinardus" is the Latin form of a
Celtic personal name, not a Frankish nickname.
you are almost certainly right, but there is nothing really Certain in this
world, and the concidence (of sound, at least) provoked me into bringing it up
and Rattling your Cage.
btw, what's the Celtic name for Dope?
that might Cinch It.
>I'm just trying to find out which one.
bonne chance.
c
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