medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: "George R. Hoelzeman" <[log in to unmask]>
> I've managed to get myself into a situation where I need to do a bit of
liturgical history research, specifically the history of celebrating Mass and
other Christian rituals while facing East. I'm guessing the Collective will
provide the usual bibliography of erudite and useful tomes - which will be
highly appreciated -
being Severely Liturgically Challenged, i'll probably best leave questions in
that area to others.
>but if anyone has some short answers to the following, it will be
appreciated:
>It is my impression that while orienting churches, et al was standard
practice in the East, it was not so in the West.
i've never heard that, one way or 'tother.
but, if anything, i'd generalize that you've got it BackAsswards.
many "Eastern" churches (esp. from Early Byzantine times) were "central plan"
structures, whose "orientation" [or "occidentation" as the case might be]
sometimes could only be determined by where the Main Altar was located, in
relation to the rest of the structure.
is Ste Sophia an "orientated" building (structurally)?
>Bamberg Cathedral, for instance, I seem to recall is aligned N/S, not E/W.
as was either the original (now mostly destroyed) cathedral of St. Nazare of
Autun or the 12th c. collegial of St. Lazare, built at right angles to it (i
can't recall which one is "oriented" and which is "australianated").
to a certain extent, "orientation" was Site Specific, having to take into
account pre-existing topographical features, if these were significant.
but, "orientation" was, as a general rule, the clear preference, wherever
possible, presumably for Liturgical reasons, although that latter point might
be Circumlocutionary, ReasoningWise.
>. . I also seem to recall reading in Jansen's History of Art
ogod.
wean yourself off that "source," the quicker the better; and try and do a
Brain Dump of whatever you might have received from it.
>that even in pre-Christian "paganism" temples in the East were oriented,
while in the Roman west they generally were not. Clarify my perceptions?
not even a Trust but Verify situation.
Jansen is a *hopeless* source, even when he is (ocassionally) right.
> - Finally, it is my impression that some developments in liturgical art and
architecture emerge in direct continuity from the immediate past (Gothic out
of Romanesque,
ayyye, Karumba.
Viday Soupra, re Jansen.
e.g., "Gothic out of Romanesque" is just Methodologically Unstable Mythology.
"Gothic" as the "Romanesque" of the Ile-de-France (esp., early on, in the
Soissonais) is a bit Closer to the Mark.
>Early Byzantine out of Late Antique)
where's the "Break" between the two?
that's always the trouble with these All-too-Conveient Modren Constructs of
Periodisation. (is Anselm of Laon a "scholastic" theologian?? why not? he's
post-Anselm of Bec --who clearly was-- and a contemporary of Abelard.)
those Constructs are *Great* for Pedological Purposes (i.e., Jansen); but just
Melt Away quicker than July Hailstones, when actually examined under
sunlight.
the History of Art (esp. the Art of the Middle Ages) is made up of a series of
Monuments (which we might imagine as destributed like Points on a Graph);
the job of the Pedologically-Driven Art Hysterian is to draw a nice, neat
curve through all those those points, one which is perceptable even to
Undergraduates.
but the Discipline ain't Rocket Science --it ain't even Cartesian
(analytical)geometry-- and those nice, neat curves actually do more harm than
good.
mainly (but not entirely) because, for the M.A. esp., they are a Skewed
Sample, only a mere fraction of the monuments which originally existed.
>but other times there is a conscious and almost radical break with the
previous era (Renaissance from Gothic).
some places, perhaps.
e.g., St. Eustache in Paris, begun under Francis I, with "Renaissance"
decorations (classical capitals, round arches) but, essentially, a thoroughly
Gothic building, structurally indistinguisable from its 12th c. linear
ancestors.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:St.-Eustache.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:StEustache_Gewoelbe_Chor.JPG
>Is there any basis for this impression
no.
'cept for Jansen.
>or is that more the subject for a thesis/dissertation?
yes.
c
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