To: Fiction/Nonfiction Question Check Jafar Panahi's The Mirror where, at
one point, the 9-year-old actress refuses to act; and the crew
surreptitiously follows her with the camera as she is walking back home.
But the film is not fiction or nonficion. It is about fiction and
nonfiction. And some other things as well. The film has nothing to do with
Tarkovsky's The Mirror, but actually Tarkovsky uses documentary insets in
his Mirror. There must be something about the name. Mikhalkov-Konchalovsky
does the same in a similar way in Siberiade, to chart the chronology of the
film. Masha Z.
On Feb 13 2008, FILM-PHILOSOPHY automatic digest system wrote:
>There are 5 messages totalling 467 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Fiction/Nonfiction question (4)
> 2. pedagogical query
>
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>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:51:43 +0100
>From: "Henry M. Taylor" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Fiction/Nonfiction question
>
>One of the standard ways of conceiving of the mockumentary or pseudo-
>documentary is that of fiction passing itself off as nonfiction.
>However, is the opposite also possible, nonfiction disguising itself
>as fiction?
>
>Any ideas?
>
>
>Henry
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:01:52 +1100
>From: Ross Macleay <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Fiction/Nonfiction question
>
>Henry
>
>I would say no to both propositions.
>
>It is fiction (hence no to the second) but rather than pass itself off as
>nonfiction (no to the first) it is a fiction about the making of a
>nonfiction.
>
>Ross
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:13:46 +0000
>From: Cormac Deane <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Fiction/Nonfiction question
>
>You do get instances in fiction films when 'real' footage is cut into
>the main narrative. This can be a cost-saving device for large crowd
>scenes, for example. I can't think of specific films, but we have
>often watched a film where documentary footage is shown in an
>establishing shot of, say, a sports stadium, and is then followed by
>a more limited shot of the crowd where our protagonists are acting.
>You might also consider many unplanned moments in Italian neo-
>realism, where real crowds of non-actors and unstaged spaces provide
>the backdrops for the narrative action. Rosselini's was trilogy, for
>example.
>Finally, there is a moment in Robert Flaherty's staged documentary
>Man of Aran where Pegeen Mike, played by a non-professional,
>genuinely gets into trouble as a wave engulfs her and one of the
>other actors drags her out of the swell by the hair.
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:36:14 -0500
>From: "Frank, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: pedagogical query
>
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>
>=20
>
>[with apologies for duplication]
>
>=20
>
>has anyone on film-philo taught a course devoted exclusively to silent
>film?
>
>=20
>
>i'm teaching such a course next semester [for the first time] and wonder
>
> 1. what films people have found to be successful in the
>classroom and
>
> 2. whether there are any specific books [texts or
>scholarly] that you'd recommend
>
>=20
>
>of course i'm familiar with some of the obvious choices [griffith,
>eistenstein, vertov, lumiere, caligari] . . . but what about sennet
>and/or chaplin, gance or murnau? . . . and of murnau, are there
>reasons for choosing nosferatu rather than sunrise, or vice-versa? . . .
>presumably M ought to be there too but what about lubitsch? . . . i
>also know of - but am lamentably unfamiliar with - early japanese
>cinema, which might stake a claim . . . so, any suggestions very much
>appreciated . .=20
>
>=20
>
>i should point out that the course is for non-specialist students, most
>of whom have never taken a cinema course, and for most of whom this will
>be one of only two humanities courses in their entire undergraduate
>career . . . i certainly don't want to water down the substance, but i
>can't take any prior exposure for granted
>
>=20
>
>many thanks
>
>=20
>
>mike
>
>=20
>
>=20
>
>**
>
>
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><div class=3DSection1>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span style=3D'color:#0F243E'>[with apologies =
>for
>duplication]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'>has
>anyone on film-philo taught a course devoted exclusively to silent =
>film?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'>i'm
>teaching such a course next semester [for the first time] and =
>wonder<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'> =
>
>1. what films people have found to be successful in the classroom =
>and<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'> =
>
>2. whether there are any specific books [texts or scholarly] that =
>you'd
>recommend<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'>of
>course i'm familiar with some of the obvious choices [griffith, =
>eistenstein,
>vertov, lumiere, caligari] . . . but what about sennet and/or =
>chaplin, gance
>or murnau? . . . and of murnau, are there reasons for choosing =
><i>nosferatu</i>
>rather than <i>sunrise</i>, or vice-versa? . . . presumably <i>M</i> =
>ought to be
>there too but what about lubitsch? . . . i also know of – =
>but am
>lamentably unfamiliar with – early japanese cinema, which might =
>stake a
>claim . . . so, any suggestions very much appreciated . . =
><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'>i
>should point out that the course is for non-specialist students, most of =
>whom
>have never taken a cinema course, and for most of whom this will be one =
>of only
>two humanities courses in their entire undergraduate career . . . i =
>certainly
>don't want to water down the substance, but i can't take any prior =
>exposure for
>granted<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'>many
>thanks<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'>mike<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Palatino =
>Linotype","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
>style=3D'color:#5301FE'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>**<o:p></o:p></p>
>
></div>
>
></body>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:45:52 +0100
>From: Geska Helena Andersson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Fiction/Nonfiction question
>
>--Apple-Mail-27--875430470
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>
>In my opinion this is to some extent what I experienced in Pekka
>Letho's_The Real McCoy_ from 1999 which is a combination of
>documentary, fiction and fictive documentary about the legendary
>Finnish gypsy punk musician from Haoni Rocks. There are several places
>in the film, which I as the viewer experience as staged or acted out,
>but which in reality are the most documentary parts... If you have not
>seen the film I would highly recommend it for its exquisite mix of
>fiction and non-fiction.
>
>Geska
>
>
>12 feb 2008 kl. 23.51 skrev Henry M. Taylor:
>> . However, is the opposite also possible, nonfiction disguising
>> itself as fiction?
>
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>
><html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
>-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">In my opinion this is to some =
>extent what I experienced in Pekka Letho's_The Real McCoy_ from 1999 =
>which is a combination of <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
>style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 17px; =
>">documentary, fiction and fictive documentary about the legendary =
>Finnish gypsy punk musician from Haoni Rocks. There are several places =
>in the film, which I as the viewer experience as staged or acted out, =
>but which in reality are the most documentary parts... If you have not =
>seen the film I would highly recommend it for its exquisite mix of =
>fiction and non-fiction.</span><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
>face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
>style=3D"font-size: 13px; line-height: 17px;"><br =
>class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></span></font></div><div><font =
>class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3"><span =
>class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px; line-height: =
>17px;">Geska</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
>face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
>style=3D"font-size: 13px; line-height: =
> 17px;"><br></span></font><div><br><div><div>12 feb 2008 kl. 23.51 skrev =
> Henry M. Taylor:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite">. However, is the =
> opposite also possible, nonfiction disguising itself as =
> fiction?<br></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>= * *
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