Greetings!

Here is a message I wrote yesterday, I see Mogg has said similar things.
>
>> Crowley formulated his version of the OTO to express (and indulge?) 
>>his sexuality with degrees exploring masturbation, heterosexual sex 
>>and homosexual sex.
>
>There is no homosexual degree in OTO.  You may be thinking of a 
>specific meaning and technique attributed to V.I.T.R.I.O.L. .  That is 
>not related to gender.   In his journals, Crowley referred to himself 
>as the recipient and experimented with female and male partners.
>

I am happy to reword my statement for the sake of agreement. 
Masturbation, heterosexual intercourse, anal intercourse. Actually I 
really do not think it is as straight forward as that. Crowley can be 
considered an important author expressing homosexual themes. Some might 
consider this utterly unconnected with his practice of magical anal sex 
with men but I would be wary of that assertion.

> he could use it all with the intention of overcoming his own 
>repression/taboos much
I believe his intent is an important issue. I would be wary of making 
simple statements about Crowley's intents. Crowley did. I do not 
uncritically embrace those statements.

I think there are significant and interesting differences between Reuses 
understanding of sex magic and that of Crowley's
>
>> Garner formulated Wicca to do likewise. Nudity, a bit of bondage, 
>>flagellation and heterosexual sex
>
>This was Aidan Kelly's assertion, hotly refuted by CalGards who insist 
>Gardner intended these methods to induce altered states of 
>consciousness perhaps much like the ecstatic state of "entheos" Maenads 
>go into at a modern Dionysia put on by Hellenic Reconers. But, perhaps 
>this is another post-1970s era accretion.  Omnia mutantur.
I am not a wiccan but those that I have done rituals with tell me that 
the intent is exactly that.  Gardner devised a ritual system that 
pressed the right buttons sexually to get him there.

I think the context for this is harnessing sexual desire and 
religious/magical practice. I think this formula is ubiquitous and very 
common. What Gardner and Crowley share and sets them apart from many 
others is that they formulated ritual religious/magical systems that 
harnessed their sexual desires
>
>> Grant in his version of the O.T.O., not being a fan of male gay sex, 
>>changed the 11th degree from homosexual to heterosexual sex when the 
>>woman is menstruating.
>
>There is no homosexual degree in OTO.  The XI* is a method not related 
>to gender.
>
It is in the Typhonian OTO as formulated by Grant. There are also 
important traditions of male homosexual initiatiory transmission in the 
Haitian offshoot of the OTO which might be considered by the 
participants to be degrees. I would expect to find male homosexual 
traditions in Michael Bertiaux's OTOA, a relative of the OTO.

Of course there will be some who are partisan to the administration of 
the Caliphate OTO who would be anxious to assert that these are not true 
OTO's but there is an agenda here which I do not share.

My best wishes

Ben
-- 
Ben Fernee
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