Terry,
feelings - thoughts? Yes, many (even if you consider them illusions):
The newness of theories or approaches never impressed me. And the
connotation of old - outdated / bad and new - appropriate / good
seems to be a bit dubious. Sure, many "cutting edges" are moving on.
But the question is: which one to follow if designing is the subject
matter of interest.
Well, I think your post indicates that you have not even understood
the basic ideas of 2nd order cybernetics. Otherwise you would not
qualify ideas and positions (except your own) as illusory and
irrelevant ...
... no, I think this allegiation is inappropriate: You may have
understood 2nd order cybernetics properly, but decided that it is not
helpful for your intention. Better?
But anyway: we disagree. I find it useful.
By the way: I LOVE "romantic obsessions".
Feelings - thoughts?
Jonas
______________
At 21:12 Uhr +0800 27.08.2007, Terence wrote:
>Wolfgang,
>
><snip> but we may turn to 2nd order cybernetics, which I find more
>appropriate</>
>
>Second order cybernetics is now a bit old? It is from the same stable that
>generated 'reflective practice' , learning loops, intrepreted theory,
>including the researcher as participant, constructivism, anthropology,
>ethnography..
>
>Useful, but the cutting edge moves on.
>
>There are some advantages in seeing humans as animals and interpreting them
>similarly - ethological analysis is helpful. Understanding the framing
>effects on modelling human understanding and behaviour of better knowledge
>of brain mediated sub-strates is helpful. Perhaps most radically helpful
>(except that the idea is a few thousand years old) is regarding
>taken for granted ideas such as 'mind', 'sense of self', 'personal value',
>and 'individual creativity' as secondary and incidental artefacts of our
>development as animals - illusions!- rather than regarding them as _central_
>to researching and theorising about human activities such as design. This is
>the new edge of research in this area in other domains.
>
>It's culturally and personally a tough challenge to regard ones' sense of
>self as illusory and irrelevant - about as difficult perhaps as realising
>the universe doesn't rotate round the earth.
>
>Dropping the longstanding romantic obsession with the illusion of 'mind' and
>sense of self as central to understanding design activity is helpful. It
>also busts apart much of the basis of many of the ex-cutting edge approaches
>such as 2nd order cybernetics, reflective practice and many other approaches
>that have become dear to heart.
>
>Feelings - thoughts?
>
>Reflectively,
>
>Terry
>____________________
>Dr. Terence Love, FDRS, Bootscooter
>Design-focused Research Group, Design Out Crime Research Group
>Associate Researcher at Digital Ecosystems and Business Intelligence
>Institute
>Research Associate, Planning and Transport Research Centre
>Curtin University, PO Box U1987, Perth, Western Australia 6845
>Mob: 0434 975 848, Fax +61(0)8 9305 7629, [log in to unmask]
>Visiting Professor, Member of Scientific Council
>UNIDCOM/ IADE, Lisbon, Portugal
>Visiting Research Fellow, Institute of Entrepreneurship and Enterprise
>Development
>Management School, Lancaster University,Lancaster, UK,
>[log in to unmask]
>____________________
>
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