medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Thank you for this information from the canons. They are
very interesting.
To answer the first question, no. The abbot did not give
them permission to leave. This would only happen in 1493,
when a new reform under the Congregation of Valladolid
brought about more depatures. The king, throwing up his
hands this time, let them leave and gave them a pension just
to get monks and hermits living there according to his
desire to implement observance.
To the second, this question comes directly from Bernard's
treatise it seems, though Bernard argues against the return
as it would be a double scandal. It is bad enough for one
to break the vow of stability once. It is twice as bad to
break it again by being forced to return, in this case from
a sense of guilt.
At Montserrat it seems to be a twofold problem: interpreting
the phrase "according to the Rule" and at least an irregular
election among the hermits, where their own superior was
imposed rather than elected according to the constitutions
of 1476. The hermits could argue both cases: they had not
vowed to live according to the interpretation being imposed
upon the them, and they had an irregularly elected abbot.
According to an anonymous treatise at Bec, one could leave
if the abbot was irregularly elected. According to Bernard,
one could disobey the abbot if he interpreted the Rule
beyond what the Rule stated. The question is who determines
the interpretation.
The monks could argue both also. The abbey was placed in
commendam for a second time (the first in 1476) rather than
by election as it had been prior to 1476. There is little
evidence that the issue was the commendam abbacy as the
abbot Joan de Peralta wanted to bring triennial election to
the community. The issue here seems to be Observance.
Daniel
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:41:07 -0400
>From: Tom Izbicki <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: [M-R] Dispensation and Reform
>To: [log in to unmask]
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
religion and culture
>
>A quick look at the Gregorian decretals shows two texts in
book III
>under the title De regularibus that are of of interest, but
neither
>exactly matches.
>
>c. Non est vobis [X 3.31.7] says a Cistercian who moves to
another
>monastery without the abbot's permission can be compelled
to return. id
>the abbot of Montserrat give permission for the monks and
hermits to
>leave? If not, that might explain the king's actions.
>
>c. Licet de quibusdam [c. 18] is less to the point,
forbidding tranfer
>of a monk even to a stricter monastery without his
prelate's permission.
>
>You might consult:
>
>Personal author: *Logan, F. Donald.*
><http://www.iris.rutgers.edu/uhtbin/cgisirsi/4pD5E8MxaS/ALCO
HOL/80300261/18/X100/XAUTHOR/Logan,+F.+Donald.>
>
>Title: Runaway religious in medieval England, c.
1240-1540 / F. Donald
>Logan.
>Publication info: Cambridge ; New York : Cambridge
University Press, 1996.
>
>
>Tom Izbicki
>
>
>Daniel K. Gullo wrote:
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
religion and culture
>>
>> I am wondering if somebody may help me solve a question
that I
>> am working on with regard to the problem of the
imposition of
>> Observantine reform on monastic communities.
>>
>> Bernard of Clairvaux posed an interesting question. Can
one
>> force a monk to take on Cistercian observances if he
professed
>> to follow a different interpretation (i.e. more lax
according
>> to Bernard) of the Benedictine Rule. The idea here is
related
>> to vows. Can one be forced to submit to a different view
of
>> living according to the Rule when one entered and
professed
>> according to what one saw and experienced in the
monastery.
>> His answer was no. One cannot force Cistercian practices
on a
>> Cluniac monastery unless the monks freely chose that form
of life.
>>
>> This is the problem that I have at Montserrat, where
several
>> monks and hermits abandoned the monastery when Fernando II
>> initiated a reform based on Observantinism in 1479. These
>> monks and hermits asked for a pension after abandoning the
>> community in 1483 and 1484. The king denied them the
pension,
>> ordered them to submit, and if not they could leave
without
>> support.
>>
>> This convoluted introduction is to ask whether or not
>> Bernard's view found its way into canon law: one cannot
force
>> a monk to take on strict observance when he vowed to live
>> according to a more traditional claustral lifestyle.
>>
>> The other side of this question is the general request
for any
>> bibliographic information on how this debate might have
taken
>> place in later medieval literature.
>>
>> Thank you so much for any help in this matter,
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
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