The original statement of Radsats concerns printed on the inside cover of
the journal give Radstats a more distinctive identity. The concerns are
stated as:

* The mystifying use of technical language to disguise social problems as
technical ones.

* The lack of control by the community over the aims of statistical
investigations, the way these are conducted and the use of the information
produced.

* The power structures within which statistical and research workers are
employed which control the work and how it is used.

* The fragmentation of social problems into specialist fields, obscuring
connectednes.

This statement of concerns seems to me remarkably well-worded and prescient.
All of the problem areas identified are still with us. in many areas they
have become more important. And many of them are echoed in recent list
discussions.

(Please don't think that I am blowing my own trumpet in going back to 1975.
I was in many ways a statistical innocent at that time and I did not
contribute directly to the formation of Radstats or this wording of Radstats
concerns. My innocence was lost only when I did a dissertation on the
functions of statistics in the 1990s)

Andrew Philpott Morgan's quotation of the Radstats website is from a
different era. The wording emphasises the overtly political functions that
Radstats might have rather than statistics. That wording came after the
last shameful episode in the history of the Radstats list when a member was
expelled in 1999 for wanting to debate the relationship betwen crime and
race. The 1999 wording leaves a lot to be desired. Most of Andrew
Philpott Morgan's description of what Radstats stands for could well fit
into a Labour Party political manifesto (or a David Cameron manifesto!).

Is that really the kind of direction Radstats should be going? Is is
surely it is not necessary, for example, to labour the point that Radstats
is against Fascism. Surely that should be taken for granted? And surely
it is not quite right to imply that Radstats supports communism - because
anti-communistm is a Fascist Perspective!?.

It is good to hear that Andrew Philpott Morgan is to revive the economic
sub-group. I would certainly like to contribute in this area and would
draw attention to my message of 24 June that identifies the use of economic
statistics as an area worthy of activity. I hope that my use of the
concept of PC in this context will be excused.

> the most outrageous current example (of PC) is in the refusal to allow
>any critical discussion of the concept of economic growth. We know
>that economic growth can only be measured by economic statistics. We
>know that economic statistics include many activies that are not of
>benefit to the population - like traffic congestion, increases in
>house prices, and longer journeys to work. But it is not PC to question
>the engine of capitalism!

I have not written for Radstats about this topic for ten years. ('Do you
know what is counted in national income statistics?' Radical Statistics, 62,
Spring & Summer 1996, pp 33--37). Might the Economics sub-group take up
these issues in some way?

Ray Thomas, Faculty of Social Sciences, Open University
****************************************
 
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Andrew Philpott Morgan
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Let's return to what RADSTSTS is about


The listholder, Alison Macfarlane, is to be commended for her decisive
action to end
considerable haemorrhaging of people and damage to the list and the Group by
those
who have no sympathy with *where we stand* or what the group is about (see
below).



Ted Harding's long summary of the debates showed little appreciation beyond
an abstract argument. On balance of probability for anyone who lives
outside the lofty confines of academia, Hitler is rather too significant to
be trivialised as a side issue.
Indeed, much more significant is the context that many others noted: the
anti-communism, anti-liberalism and eugenics race 'science' notions which
are the hallmarks of fascist perspectives.

What RADSTATS stands for is set out on the website: Members are 'radical' in
being
committed to helping build a more free, democratic and egalitarian society.
Members of Radstats are concerned at the extent to which official statistics
reflect governmental rather than social
purposes...Radstats members believe that we need statistics in order to
understand the situation of many groups in society, and in order to promote
equality and social justice among different groups in society. Radstats
members believe that statistics can be used as part of campaigns for
progressive social change...

  
It would seem following from this that we need an anti-racist, anti-fascist
policy. This may help to encourage those who left the site to return and
engage in a discussion of *Radical* Statistics.

 'Political correctness', well, in the good old days disadvantage was
institutionalised and natural common sense and social norms more implicit
but 'political correctness' was there sure enough even if once Paddy was
thick and Taffy was a thief. Is the complaint that social norms are of the
wrong sort? My own assessment (non-statistical) is that modern societies
require forms of values, organisation and controls and this is functional
more than 'administrative', an aspect of the society rather simply
'ideological'. In which case the volume of ink has been wasted. I may be
wrong, of course, and someone on the site may provide the actual evidence,
and this is the difference between science and ideology, prejudice,
propaganda...but this is the problem up to now. This is the point: this is a
statistical site. It is what RADSTATS should be about.
  
Let's return to actual statistics and then consider its political and
socio-economic setting.

Finally to put this into practice those who have been in contact wished to
do some empirical, radical statistics(!) through the Economic subgroup on
financial instability (and its social impications) or others can contact me
in the usual place. For others interested my email address is here as the
details on the website are years out of date. I am far from the Internet for
a few days, most likely swimming in the countryside floods if I can get
there, and I won't be able to get back to you promptly.

Andrew

--------------------------------
Andrew Philpott Morgan
Visionary Analysis Enterprise

 





--
Dr Andrew Philpott Morgan, M.Sc. (Lond.), Ph.D. (Warwick),PGCE,FSS Visionary
Analysis Enterprise, Innovative solutions for business and organisations
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