haha, wonderful quote Hal.
I think 'music' in this sense is what the artistic intent of schemae
like metre & rhyme patterns has been from the beginning; there's the
additional functions of the poet placing himself in a caste simply
through vocabulary, linking a poem to a latinate tradition, giving
poetry ligitimacy through structure &c.; but the essential thing, at
least the clearest EFFECT of metre, is in removing (perhaps
'detaching'?) the voice of a poem from the prose of a spoken
conversation, the stylistic form of an anecdote. this has some
potentially far-flung artistic aspirations attached to it, involving
an attempt to cement poetry as something incomparable to anything
common. but for me, i.e. the related principle that I try always to go
by when writing, is to 'elevate' poetic language from common language
in such a manner & to such a degree that the common language isn't
lost, but also so that the poetic diction doesn't remove itself from
the power (which can be good in any form, flaccid or ferocious) being
communicated.
now this elevation has primarily, especially in narrow or traditional
views, to do with employing specialised imagery, metaphor, reference,
symbolism. these are important, but are much more delicate & difficult
when compared to inventive & satisfying PHONICS; because metaphors
need to be subtle, but phonics do not: at least not in the same sense.
perhaps what I mean can be described rather by saying that phonics
have to flow & ebb & bounce & shatter in complete harmony with
everything else, with syntax & content; while metaphors are really the
'core', the *meaning* that exists in the cool sol underneath all the
evident techniques.
this is all a long-winded way of saying that musicality is, to me,
language used in association with aesthetics as well as meaning. when
a poem recounts an anecdote dully, it doesn't matter to me whether the
meaning of the anecdote is symbolic or intriguing or not. the task of
a poem is not JUST to be meaningful, but to also LOOK & SOUND
meaningful; & to look & sound beautiful. for this we have imagery &
phonics respectively; images & sounds working together = music.
KS
On 04/06/07, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I agree with Anny and Doug, Kasper. I'm not sure what you
> mean by "music."
>
> "I don't know what music is."
> --Ludvig van Beethoven
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
> On Jun 4, 2007, at 9:59 AM, Douglas Barbour wrote:
>
> > I agree with Anny that this response was interesting & thoughtful,
> > Kasper, and found your comments on your own approach intriguing.
> >
> > I'm not quite sure what you mean by detached. I would tend to use
> > the term 'abstract' perhaps.
> >
> > I do feel, in my own case, that the lyric 'I' can itself be a kind
> > of dodge, or at least that it carries a lot of cultural baggage
> > that might force the poem into certain responses....
> >
> > But the result, in a poem where the 'I' doesn't appear, need not be
> > 'detached,' & I also recognize that my desire to avoid the 'I' is
> > mine, & read a lot of poems in which the poet uses the "I"
> > brilliantly, so it's my problem, not poetry's or other poets'....
> >
> > Anyway, it's not a bad thing to be thinking about the theory...
> >
> > Doug
> > On 4-Jun-07, at 1:40 AM, kasper salonen wrote:
> >
> >> my own writing has a way of being rather detached, & I think this has
> >> to do with my conception of poetry in general AS somewhat detached.
> > Douglas Barbour
> > 11655 - 72 Avenue NW
> > Edmonton Ab T6G 0B9
> > (780) 436 3320
> > http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> >
> > Latest book: Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
> >
> >
> > Art has to be forgotten: Beauty must be realized.
> >
> > Piet Mondrian
>
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