medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher M. Mislow" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [M-R] virginem ta katamenia nescientem
Thank you all for such a lively colloquy. Upon further reflection, though, I believe Mata's reaction (see below) may be right. It
appears that, in my search for the recondite, I forgot to heed that valuable axiom of folk wisdom, "If all else fails, try reading
the instructions."
Redirected by Mata's suggestion,I believe I may have found an answer. According to several on-line secondary sources (which,
however, I have been unable to verify due to lack of access to the original sources), there is a Shia tradition, recorded in volume
10 of the Bihar al-Anwar (whose apparent source, in turn, is Imam Abu Jaafar Al-Baqir) that when Fatima was born, Allah said to her
"I have bestowed knowledge upon and safeguarded you from menstruation."
--Christopher
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mata Kimasitayo" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [M-R] virginem ta katamenia nescientem
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Christopher,
>
> Don't know the provenance nor specific connexion with Marionite
> teaching but wouldn't "virginem [ta katamênia] nescientem" just
> mean a virgin not knowing menstruation ? [scil. immaculatus]
>
> Mata
> - -
>
> Mata Kimasitayo
> Kimasita~aT~Bloomington~In~Us
>
> ______________________________
>
>>> Dicit ei Pilatus: Quid est veritas? <<
>
> -- Secundum Ioannem XVIII. 38
>
> ______________________________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cm
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:48 PM
> Subject: [M-R] virginem ta katamenia nescientem
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> My apologies for a somewhat off-list topic, but your collective minds are
> too tempting a target to resist.
>
> I have encountered a phrase in Sir Richard F. Burton's "Pilgrimage to
> Medina" (1853) whose provenance I cannot determine. The
> context is the Muslim description of Mohammed's daughter Fatima as a virgin
> even though she bore children. The phrase used by Burton
> to describe her state of purity may, perhaps, have its origin in Catholic
> Marian teachings. Hence my present inquiry.
>
> The phase is part Latin and part Greek. Since I can't replicate Greek in an
> e-mail message, I have transliterated and bracketed it
> to indicate that it's a transliteration rather than the original text:
> "virginem [ta katamenia] nescientem". The "ta katamenia" ("e"
> signifying eta rather than epsilon) refers, as I gather, to a woman's
> menses. Beyond that -- and perhaps even *in* that -- I'm
> clueless. Any thoughts would be most welcome.
>
> --Christopher
>
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