medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I think I should win some sort of prize or title , say, "Mistress of
Fomenting Casuistry and Discord." Any and all suggestions as to the form or
shape of my trophy welcome. If any are obscene, kindly post to me directly
and keep off list.
MG
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Scott Carson wrote:
>>On 17 Feb 2007, at 10:55, John Briggs wrote:
>>>Scott Carson wrote:
>>>>On 17 Feb 2007, at 10:27, John Briggs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>1) Yes, consecration of a bishop is a sacrament.
>>>>
>>>>Consecration to the episcopacy is not, in itself, a Sacrament. Holy
>>>>Orders is the Sacrament, episcopacy is a gradus within Holy Orders.
>>>>The term "consecration" is perhaps misleading in this instance.
>>>>While it is true that the Sacraments have been counted in different
>>>>ways in different times, there is no evidence that the episcopacy
>>>>was ever counted as a Sacrament distinct from some other putative
>>>>sacrament of, say, presbytery or deaconry.
>>>
>>>But consecration to the episcopacy is not, in itself, not a
>>>sacrament. Saying "Yes, consecration of a bishop is a sacrament" is
>>>less misleading than saying "No, consecration of a bishop is not a
>>>sacrament."
>>
>>If wishes were horses you'd have a real derby winner there. What
>>counts as "less misleading" depends entirely upon the context, and
>>what you wrote was quite misleading. What was needed was a clear
>>statement that the episcopacy is a gradus within the Sacrament of
>>Holy Orders, and that is precisely what I wrote. It is fatuous to
>>suggest that what I wrote was more misleading than what you wrote,
>>especially when you could just as easily have written what I wrote if
>>you had wanted to.
>
>Well, the context in which I wrote:
>
>>1) Yes, consecration of a bishop is a sacrament.
>
>was:
>
>>2) Yes, it is "holy orders"
>
>If I am being misleading, I am in good company, including the Catholic
>Encyclopedia, which writes: "If we except the consecration of a bishop,
>which is a sacrament -- although there is a question among theologians,
>whether the sacrament and the character imprinted by it are distinct from
>the sacrament and character of the priesthood, or only a certain extension
>of the sacerdotal sacrament and character -- all the other consecrations
>are sacramentals."
>
>John Briggs
>
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