medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

In England the situation was this:
 
The reforming bishops Dunstan, Ethelwold and Oswald introduced monastic
chapters at the cathedrals of Canterbury, Winchester and Worcester
respectively in the late tenth century, in the case of Winchester in a
veritable coup/corporate takeover. They also revived and reformed many
other monastic houses, Ely being one, though it was not then a
cathedral. 

The first Norman archbishop of Canterbury, Lanfranc, might have
consigned these three monastic cathedral chapters to the dustbin of
Anglo-Saxon history, but instead during the first forty years or so
after the Conquest six further cathedrals 'went monastic'.

The process varied from place to place, but can be broken down like this
(in roughly chronological order): at Rochester and Durham the married
secular canons were ejected in favour of monks; at Wells and Lichfield
the Episcopal seat moved away from these cathedral churches to the
monastic houses of Bath and Coventry*; in the diocese of East Anglia the
cathedral was refounded in a new location, Norwich, again with a new,
monastic chapter; and in the early c12 the ancient monastery at Ely was
made the cathedral of a new diocese. Carlisle was founded a couple of
decades later - 1122 (foundation) and 1133 (see), from memory -  with an
Augustinian chapter. So by the mid twelfth century about half the
English dioceses had cathedrals staffed by monks, of which all but one
were 'traditional' ie non-Cluniac, Benedictine. 

While monastic cathedral chapters were not unknown outside England,
nowhere else (it is widely stated...) did they make up anything like 50%
of the 'national total'. I would love to know if this is true, or of
other examples such as those given for Sicily. 

As none of the remaining English secular chapters (Exeter, Salisbury,
Hereford, Chichester, St Pauls, Lincoln, York and in the fullness of
time Wells and Lichfield; the four Welsh sees were also secular) were of
the neo-Monastic Rule of Chrodegang-based type, the difference between
the two groups must have been very great indeed. I may expand on my
personal theories for the implications of this in another message... 

*In both cases the bishop maintained some kind of connection with the
secular canons of Wells and Lichfield respectively; in the case of
Lichfield the waters are muddied by a brief attempt to base the
bishopric at the secular chapter of St John's, Chester. In both cases,
too, the canons of Wells and Lichfield began a determined campaign to
win back the bishop's chair: the two dioceses became 'joint' ones - Bath
& Wells; Coventry & Lichfield - and by the mid thirteenth century it's
pretty clear in both cases that the focus of, er, Episcopal prowess was
back at the two secular churches: Wells and Lichfield were effectively
the 'senior partners' though Bath and Coventry had a bishop's throne,
participated in Episcopal elections, and provided an alternative 'seat'
for the bishop. Attempts were made to make Canterbury (in the late c12)
and Worcester (in the c15) secular or jointly-secular chapters, too. 

-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Christopher Crockett
Sent: 19 July 2006 19:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Monastic cathedral chapters (WAS Re: [M-R] bishop's
prisons/bishops powers in his church)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture

From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>

> On Wednesday, July 19, 2006, at 9:52 am, christopher crockett wrote:
>  
>> of course, in France we don't have that peculiar institution of a 
>> "monastic"cathedral chapter.

> Interesting.  At several locations in their newly acquired south
Italian and
Sicilian domains the early Hautevilles Robert Guiscard and Roger I
arranged
for monastic cathedral chapters run by Cluniac Benedictines of the
Cavensian
community.  The instances that come to mind right away are Venosa in the
duchy
of Apulia (where Guiscard intended the cathedral to be his family's
burial
church), Mileto (Roger I's capital in Calabria), and Catania.

> I wonder where they got the idea to do this?


obviously an instance of the Contamination of a Conquering Folk by their
Conquered Subjects.

sometimes happens.

the hapless Normans were probably grasping for any Straw in any Port in
the
Storm, trying to impose some sort of Order on the Shifless Siclians. 


in any event, at this period, "Normandy" isn't really part of "France".

not until August Phil whooped that Lackland John's tookus and got it
back.

c

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