Hi Richard
Sounds like you have the makings of a full-scale debate here, something I've
really not noticed on the list since I joined it a year and a half ago.
Can I just say that short of black and white solutions, the real problem for
me is that licensed commercial access to OS data does not scale down to the
cottage-industry scale of operation that my own work involves, and there is
no licensing model that fits with the way I would need to work in order to
use OS data in any case.
This situation is made worse by the fact that in effect there is no level
playing field. I am aware enough of the licensing issues, and have enough
respect for copyright and the law that I do not abuse the system, but I
suspect that some of my commercial competitors do, either through naivety of
the law (which is commonplace), or possibly even in flagrant disregard for
it. The fact that the OS are ineffective in following up reported breaches
(or were at least in the case I reported to them, of which both I and they
were apparently certain there was some sort of case to answer), makes a
mockery of the system, and makes it difficult if not impossible to compete.
I had one product effectively wiped out after more than three months of
development because I was using low grade publicly available data against a
competitor who was almost certainly using far higher quality data from an
unlicensed and unauthorised source.
Just my two pennorth. I sincerely hope this does not turn into a heated
debate, and would in that respect ask that if anyone does not agree with my
points, perhaps they could just say so simply and we'll agree to differ.
thanks
John Farrie
Flight-simulator add-on scenery designer
Visual Flight
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Oliver" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: FW: CivicAccess forward
> I'm afraid I'm enough of both a conservative, a heretic and a cynic to
> wonder whether the result of the Isle of Wight operation will be to
> give us yet another small-scale dataset of roads and very little else,
> which might just possibly result in a small diminution in the revenue
> of both OS and commercial outfits such as HarperCollins, but does not
> add to the total sum of available information. If these people were to
> provide something that would fill in the gap represented by the lack of
> decent contoured 1:100,000 mapping of these islands, then they would be
> on to something, but consideration of the logistics makes this
> doubtful. The problem, as I see it, lies in OS LARGE-SCALE data being so
> expensive, and a few people running round the Isle of Wight one weekend
> are hardly going to make any difference there!
>
> Having spent several hours this last weekend making some very partial
> checks of the revision to some recently published OS 1:25,000
> Explorers, I cannot help feeling that a better use of time for these
> people would be field-checking these maps for consistency of revision.
> (My armchair operation suggested inconsistencies: but perhaps landscape
> change is inconsistent!)
>
> And if the OS was to make its data available for free, or cheap, 80 or
> 90 million pounds a year would have to be found from somewhere to
> maintain it. Perhaps the BEST use of time would be attacking those
> overpaid journalists who are constantly wingeing on about tax cuts
> [they seem to have overlooked that the year isn't 1976 and we no longer
> have an 83% top rate and 40 % standard rate], who brainwash the public
> with their poison! We might then have some money to pay for a 'free'
> Ordnance Survey!!!! (to say nothing of health service, education...)
>
> Seriously: the present situation may not be ideal, but critics who
> think that OS is screwing huge sums from the public, and that a DIY
> operation will help remedy this supposed evil, just don't understand
> how OS or British public finance work.
>
> Richrd Oliver
> [not earning enough to pay 40 per cent tax]
>
> On Mon, 8 May 2006 12:51:20 +0100 Julia Barrett <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > This is very interesting!
> >
> > I wonder would they be interested in doing Ireland - situation here
> > far worse than in UK - even educational prices are prohibitive.
> >
> > Thanks for alerting us April,
> >
> > Julia
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carlucci, April" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Friday, May 5, 2006 12:24 pm
> > Subject: FW: CivicAccess forward
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >
> > > Hello everyone
> > >
> > > Here's something picked up on the Canadian maps list that mentions
> > our
> > > favourite map publisher (and not in the kindest way).
> > >
> > > April
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: CARTA-L : Canadian Map & GIS Libraries and Archives
> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcel Fortin
> > > Sent: 04 May 2006 18:17
>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: CivicAccess forward
> > >
> > > This message just appeared on the CivicAccess listserv. I thought
> > many
> > > of you who are not on that list would get a kick out of this project.
> > > The group is actually going out and making their own data of the
> > > Isle of
> > > Wight and will make it available for free. Pity Canada is so big!
> > >
> > > ----Original Message by Patrick Dinnen [log in to unmask]
> > > --
> > > http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=cm&id=3227
> > >
> > >
> > > 'OpenStreetMap, an organisation that is using consumer technology to
> > > create copyright-free maps, is meeting this weekend (5-7 May) in the
> > > Isle of Wight [UK] - to map the whole Island and give the data away
> > > under a Creative Commons license...'
> > >
> > > 'Here's the stark reality - technology in the hands of enthused
> > > membersof the public is changing for ever the business models in
> > > many areas...'
> > >
> > > 'Organisation like the [Ordnance Survey] who do not let their data
> > > freewill be be left clutching hold of something whose value has been
> > > severely diminished, if not zero'd...'
> > > -- ---------------- End of Original Message -----------------------
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Note: I am currently on research leave.
> > > I am monitoring my email, but it may take longer than usual for me to
> > > reply.
> > > If you require help with maps or Geographic Information Systems,
> > > pleasecontact [log in to unmask]
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Marcel Fortin
> > > GIS and Map Librarian, University of Toronto
> > > 130 St. George Street, Toronto, ON M5S 1A5 416 946 0522
> > >
> > >
> > ***********************************************************************
> > ***
> > >
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> > >
> > > Help the British Library conserve the world's knowledge. Adopt a
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
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>
> -------------------
> Richard Oliver, B.A., D.Phil., F.B.Cart.S.,
> School of Geography, Archaeology & Earth Resources
> University of Exeter
> Exeter, EX4 4RJ
>
>
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