Thanks, Mark, and that's all very interesting, and my
brother who was in his early 40's, had both visual and
auditory hallucinations though I don't remember what
he was diagnosed with, it would have been all third
hand information anyway, or even if he was, I think
more like instantly treated while in crisis. From what
I heard afterwards, some ten years later, Wayne did
stabilize, he was able to live alone, spent a lot of
time competing in chess tournaments, etc. And it may
well have been genetic, his father had had a similar
breakdown, though it might have been something else,
since he was in his early 40's too  when it occurred. 

> The confusion you felt, Rebecca, the feeling that
> you were becoming 
> like your friend, is pretty universal. On a day to
> day basis it's 
> almost impossible to query every word and behavior,
> so one winds up 
> humoring, which in short order leads to a distortion
> of one's own 
> sense of reality.
> 
> I hope this is useful.
 That is useful. It's true that it's impossible to
query every word and behavior. And I think, in
considering my family and their response to my
brother, that there was much of this humoring going
on, to varying degrees with each person trying to
reply within and to his terms and so a kind of
distortion in their sense of reality with
corresponding failures of response. I don't know,
perhaps talking about this has created a false
impression of having issues with my family about this,
I don't, forgiveness and love can exist hand in hand
with the facts and I've never been closer with my
mother and sister and part of it is that we can
acknowledge what happened and out of a love for one
another that allows even painful truths. But I hadn't
thought of this, until you said it, about the
distortion of reality that occurred in their going
along with him, so particular thanks for that.

best,

Rebecca
--- Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> For what it's worth, I can give something of a
> professional 
> perspectiveon some of this.
> 
> Categorization and diagnosis of psychoses isn't yet
> an exact science, 
> but it's geting there. It's certainly a lot better
> than it used to 
> be. The issue in treatment is that there are a bunch
> of disorders 
> that can look very much the same at a given moment
> but usually unfold 
> differently over time and respond to different kinds
> of treatment. 
> What they have in common is delusional thinking,
> often accompanied by 
> visual hallucinations and, commonly, voices. The
> condition when it's 
> in a florid state also makes communication almost
> impposible. 
> Variously, drug-induced psychoses, post-partum (sp?)
> depression, 
> bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, the effects of a
> tumor, and senile 
> dementia can look alike, and there are a bunch more
> that don't come 
> to mind. Usually the sufferer attracts professional
> attention only 
> when the symptoms are pretty dramatic. History is
> very important. You 
> don't want to treat a kid who arrives in hospital
> after eating a 
> bunch of pcp with antipsychotic meds, you just want
> to keep him safe 
> for a few days until he begins to return to his
> normal. The ups and 
> downs that usually but not always characterize
> bipolar disorder 
> (usually in cycles of a few months on each end)
> often respond to 
> lithium, the other psychoses don't. For
> schizophrenics the first 
> psychotic episode is usually at about 17 to 19. I
> suspect from 
> experience that peculiarities that the family may
> not have taken 
> seriously and weren't in themselves particularly
> destructive often 
> appear much earlier, but there's not too much
> literature on this. 
> Between the earliest episodes a schizophrenic may
> appear almost 
> normal (using the word as I did above), but over
> time the more florid 
> episodes tend to become less dramatic and the
> condition somewhat 
> stable. Sounds like your friend, Rebecca. There are
> medications that 
> help alleviate symptoms, but most come at a heavy
> cost in side 
> effects for most people.
> 
> Very very few schizophrenics function well enough
> after onset that 
> the label is going to do them much damage. It can
> make it possible to 
> get the help they need. Films like "A Beutiful Mind"
> may help remove 
> the stigma from the diagnosis.
> 
> There are cases of complete remission by
> schizophrenics and bipolar 
> sufferers. More common in the latter than in the
> former.
> 
> There's also a strong suspicion in the field that
> there's more than 
> one disease being lumped together as schizophrenia.
> We simply don't 
> know enough yet. Though it seems pretty clear that
> there's a strong 
> genetic predisposition.
> 
> So where does that leave non-medical practitioners?
> One watches and 
> waits, and when possible one treats the patient just
> like any other 
> patient--if he behaves bizzarly or says something
> strange ask, with 
> great patience, for an explanation, and when the
> explanation is 
> beyond understanding ask for a further
> clarification. And a lot of 
> work with the usually terrified family and friends,
> as often as 
> possible with the patient present and participating,
> is enormously 
> useful. At the very least they need to figure out
> how to go on with 
> their very changed lives. Not in that respect
> different than how one 
> deals with a family having to adjust to any other
> chronic condition.
> 
> The confusion you felt, Rebecca, the feeling that
> you were becoming 
> like your friend, is pretty universal. On a day to
> day basis it's 
> almost impossible to query every word and behavior,
> so one winds up 
> humoring, which in short order leads to a distortion
> of one's own 
> sense of reality.
> 
> I hope this is useful.
> 
> 
> At 04:21 PM 4/3/2006, you wrote:
> >Tina,
> >
> >Thanks for your post,
> > > Not just psychology either.  The western
> 'approach'
> > > to education seems to be
> > > about teaching others to label/group/classify in
> the
> > > textbook fashion.  Any
> > > leaps of imagination are curbed (until at least
> PhD
> > > level and sometimes even
> > > then) by asking for reference points 'where is
> your
> > > evidence?'  - and so the
> > > system supports and reinforces itself.
> > >
> >
> >I agree with this in many respects, but, on the
> other
> >hand, I've always liked science because in actual
> >practice it depends upon making endless precise
> >observations and distinctions. There is a way in
> which
> >in public education and perhaps in popular thinking
> >that science is connected with categorizing and
> >labelling, which is definitely an aspect of it, and
> >perhaps the emphasis is skewed that way in public
> >education. But that's probably no more than the way
> in
> >which poetry is taught in many classrooms, for
> >instance the ubiqutuous presence of Shel
> Silverstein
> >in elementary schools. And in the practice of
> science,
> >it seems to me that the emphasis upon evidence is
> >precisely so that the eye of the scientist is
> forever
> >drawn back to the facts and made to question
> whatever
> >assumption or hypothesis or overarching theory with
> >which she began. In those few scientists that I
> know
> >well, it seems to me that this capacity for making
> >intellectual distinctions which always lead to more
> >distinctions is combined with a kind of freeing of
> the
> >creative imagination.
> >
> > > I agree.  Success probably does most often come
> down
> > > to the sensitivity of
> > > the practitioner and the time that they have to
> > > spend with an individual.
> > > If I appeared totally 'anti' before it was
> because I
> > > was irritated by some
> > > of the comments posted to this thread.  I have,
> > > unfortunately, got many
> > > stories of people who have been let down by
> health
> > > professionals following a
> > > diagnosis of mental illness.  I am struggling to
> > > think of a single success.
> > >
> > > I also have a fascination with the power
> structures
> > > that can lead to one
> > > person being totally disempowered by attaching a
> > > label to them.  When I was
> > > a student (many years ago now) a friend of mine
> was
> > > diagnosed as
> > > schizophrenic and this 'tag' seemed to me to be
> more
> > > destructive than the
> > > symptoms she had exhibited up to that point. 
> For
> > > one thing - all of the
> > > quirkiness that made her interesting was
> > > re-interpreted as signs of madness.
> > >
> >
> 
=== message truncated ===


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