>From:         Mark Weiss 
>I'll shut up in a minute, after I report what I
learned from a very 
>cursory glance at several apparently good statistical
studies that I 
>found on the web, all of which use as their
experimental sample all 
>of the known suicides in a given year or period of
years.

Well, I was curious myself and looked at a number of
statistics, etc, and  in the U.S. the highest rate of
suicide per 100,000 among men is in the over 75 age
group. It is in Australia that the 35-44 age groups
among men have the highest rate, making it in some
years, the leading cause of death. As for women, in
the US the highest rate is in ages  40-59 and in
Australia ages 35-44. There was some noting that these
differences must indicate societal differences, and
the high rate of middle-aged male suicide in Australia
was connected, as Alison noted, with relationship
breakup. It would seem, that more obvious factors,
like age, illness, etc, would account for the high
rate of the over 75 group for men in the U.S.. And
while relationship breakup might be easier for women,
(is it?) I'd guess that women's having the highest
rates in middle age would probably have some
connection to divorce or relationship breakup, both
emotionally, and in the economic factors. I also don't
think that it's exactly positive that women 'only'
'attempt suicide' 35 times. 

I don't know about these larger theories. It would
seem from the statistics that if misogyny, homophobia,
and hollow constructs of masculinity are behind the
rates of middle-aged male suicide, as Alison
suggested, then Australia has considerably more of a
problem with these issues than the U.S. does.  And,
yes, Aborigines commit suicide at a 40% higher rate
than the white population of Australia. But in the
U.S., white males commit suicide most often, followed
by Native Americans. Oddly black women are least at
risk, I say oddly because given economic and class
factors, if those are the deciding factors, then that
seems counter intuitive. 

Anyway, I don't know, but, truthfully, this
conversation bothers me with its emphasis upon
assumption and far reaching theory since it doesn't
seem very connected to the realities of such
experiences. I cannot talk about suicide without
seeing my brother's body lying in the grass where he
shot himself, not once, but twice in the chest, nor
without seeing my uncle's shattered temples and blind
eyes from his attempted suicide from which he died a
couple of years later. There were a great many
differences between them, my brother was in his early
40's, a cowboy, unemployed for some months, my uncle
was in his early 60's, retired, well off, from his
career as a captain in the Merchant Marines. What they
had in common were: they were both not working and the
sort of work they did was as much about who they were
as what they did, they both drank too much and had for
some time, they both wanted to make changes in their
lives and had long term marriages and each of their
wives (while very different too) were adamant about
not changing anything, they both had no children, they
had both been severely rejected, recently, by the same
person, my father, they were both given 'help'
diagnosis and treatment by family members who didn't
know what they were doing and basically did just
enough to keep their problems hidden from anyone else
who might have actually helped. And there was an
element of the random, being left a key to where the
guns were locked up. I do think there was some element
of this masculine construct, some way in which they
were both caught in a hollow mold at a young age, but
it's so difficult to separate out from any of the
sheer unremitting damages of childhood, my uncle grew
up in an orphanage, etc. It just seems to me that
people damage one another horribly, they don't mean
to, they intend otherwise and cannot see how they do,
but they do. Which isn't to say that both my uncle and
brother didn't chose to continue the damage to
themselves.  I don't really think economics or
education or considerations of misogyny would have
made any difference. And, sorry, if I seem impatient, 

best,

Rebecca  
 



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