Absolutely.
Now *there was an artist who badly wanted to be taken seriously as a real
Follower of the Muse. And as you say, he could have made it -- after all,
there weren't many contemporary with him in the way of serious British
composers -- if he hadn't let the public get a whiff of the fun-stuff.
joanna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dominic Fox" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Muse
"The Long Day Closes" is especially lovely; and I like "The Lost
Chord", too. There are a few hymn tunes of his, of varying quality;
but he *knew what he was doing* as a composer, that's for sure.
Not a major G&S afficionado - that's something I'm saving up for later
- but I would note that even when Sullivan's being *very silly*,
there's often still something there that's quite in earnest. He could
have made a career out of gravitas if he'd chosen - I think of him as
a precursor to modern film composers, who bend anything and
everything, from Wagner to Webern, to their purposes.
Dominic
On 1/12/06, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Drat you, Dominic, I'll be singing it all night now.
>
> joanna
>
> Which Sullivan? or all of it? Gilbert on his own's rather interesting too.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dominic Fox" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Muse
>
>
> The line, as I recall, is "what do I think of Stainer's crucifixion? I
> think it's a very good idea!". Ditto Gandhi's line about "Western
> Civilisation" - e.g., it's high time something of the sort was brought
> about.
>
> I used Stainer, of all people, to talk about Katrina, of all things:
>
> CHANGE MANAGEMENT a capital idea,
> as variously said of Stainer's
> crucifixion, Western civilisation;
>
> as plaintively incised into the bath-
> house walls of cities drowned
> and choked, alongside MENTULAM CACO, there
>
> where one delivers one's opinion
> of his supreme beneficence. Chalk up your names,
> you passers-by, fresh out of lamentations.
>
> (Stainer took the line "is it nothing to you, all you that pass by?"
> from the book of Lamentations, and turned it into Christ's lament from
> the cross, in a particularly fruity recitative). MENTULAM CACO is I
> think from Martial, but it's the sort of thing one might have found
> graffitoed at Pompeii. The line about the place "where one delivers
> one's opinion / of his supreme benificence" refers to something Nagy
> Rashwan once told me about his friends and family in Egypt - that when
> visiting the lavatory, they sometimes said things like "I'm just going
> to give my opinion of the government".
>
> No, Stainer's not up there with Tennyson - but he has in my view the
> inestimable virtue of not being Maunder. And you can have my Arthur
> Sullivan when you prise it from my shaking, fever-stricken hands...
>
> Dominic
>
> On 1/12/06, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > Oh lor! Fling wide the gates!! You *can't be equating Tennyson and
> > Stainer
> > in terms of importance. I totally agree with you about Tennyson; but as
> > my
> > ex used to say about Stainer, it's past time someone crucified him.
> >
> > joanna
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dominic Fox" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Muse
> >
> >
> > Tennyson does *not* get enough love around here, or pretty much
> > anywhere these days.
> >
> > Without Tennyson, no Yeats.
> >
> > Oh, and there's this: http://www.bartleby.com/229/5008.html
> >
> > Tennyson is sick, of course, with all the sickness of the Victorians -
> > overbrimming with it. _Maud_ is just about the most deranged thing any
> > civilised (I used the word advisedly) person ever wrote. I can quite
> > understand finding him repulsive; but that's no excuse for not
> > recognising his importance.
> >
> > Now, who's for a quick run-through of Stainer's _Crucifixion_?
> >
> > Dominic
> >
> > On 1/12/06, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > The locus classicus I should think would be Hesiod's Theogony.
> > >
> > > A nice article, as far as it goes, at
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse.
> > >
> > > As to Graves, he gets better and better the less you read him. For a
> > > start,
> > > I can think of a few other reasons why people fortunate enough not to
> > > die
> > > of wars and disease stop writing poetry, and no great loss, usually.
> > >
> > > And he seems to have missed the boat on In Memoriam.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > At 08:49 PM 1/12/2006 +0000, you wrote:
> > > >A reminder for those interested that the locus classicus for much of
> > > >what's
> > > >being discussed under this heading remains Robert Graves' The White
> > > >Goddess,
> > > >especially chapters 22ff. In hopes of encouraging the company to
> > > >read
> > > >or
> > > >reread these chapters, I give below an excerpt which I am sure each
> > > >of
> > > >you
> > > >who reads it will cherish as a source of either insight or
> > > >aggravation:
> > > >
> > > >===
> > > >
> > > >The reason why so remarkably few young poets continue nowadays to
> > > >publish
> > > >poetry after their early twenties is...that something dies in the
> > > >poet.
> > > >Perhaps he has compromised his poetic integrity by valuing some range
> > > >of
> > > >experience or other - literary, religious, philosophical, dramatic,
> > > >political, or social - above the poetic. But perhaps also he has lost
> > > >his
> > > >sense of the White Goddess: the woman whom he took to be a Muse, or
> > > >who
> > > >was
> > > >a Muse, turns into a domestic woman and would have him turn similarly
> > > >into a
> > > >domesticated man. Loyalty prevents him from parting company with
> > > >her,
> > > >especially if she is the mother of his children ... and as the Muse
> > > >fades
> > > >out, so does the poet. The English poets of the early nineteenth
> > > >century
> > > >... were uncomfortably aware of this problem and many of them, such
> > > >as
> > > >Southey and Patmore, tried to lyricize domesticity, though none of
> > > >them
> > > >with
> > > >poetic success. The White Goddess is anti-domestic; she is the
> > > >perpetual
> > > >'other woman', and her part is difficult indeed for a woman of
> > > >sensibility
> > > >to play for more than a few years, because the temptation to commit
> > > >suicide
> > > >in simple domesticity lurks in every mænad's and muse's heart.
> > > >
> > > >===
> > > >
> > > >Also relevant is the comment Graves makes somewhere about Tennyson's
> > > >In
> > > >Memoriam, which Graves considered was doomed to failure as a poem
> > > >because
> > > >"a
> > > >Muse does not wear whiskers."
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shall we be pure or impure? Today
> > we shall be very pure. It must always
> > be possible to contain
> > impurities in a pure way.
> > --Tarmo Uustalu and Varmo Vene
> >
>
>
> --
> Shall we be pure or impure? Today
> we shall be very pure. It must always
> be possible to contain
> impurities in a pure way.
> --Tarmo Uustalu and Varmo Vene
>
--
Shall we be pure or impure? Today
we shall be very pure. It must always
be possible to contain
impurities in a pure way.
--Tarmo Uustalu and Varmo Vene
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