To be fair I think Ken mentioned the notion of 'passion-driven enquiry'
(maybe not quite his words), and I very much endorse the idea of being sure
that the effort and time invested doesn't just have long-term benefits
(employment, contribution to field of enquiry, expansion of the territory,
eventual publication, etc.) but that there are some benefits during the
process of the PhD itself.

That is, that the actual experience is in some way enjoyable (a range of
emotions is usually experienced, but hopefully joy is in there somewhere) -
otherwise it could be a kind of academic purgatory with the joy of release
being the only driver...


On 5/12/06 08:12, "Chris Rust" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Ken,
> 
> Karen asked (in effect), "should somebody like me get a PhD?"
> 
> You answered that one reason for getting a PhD is to be able to
> supervise PhDs. In terms of Karen's question that feels pretty circular
> and actually she could be excused for thinking that we have become so
> obsessed with the PhD as an end in itself that we have forgotten what it
> is for. Reminds me of the lost dukedom of Gormenghast where the whole
> community was ruled by arcane rituals that had long since lost their
> meaning. There are enough stories of disillusioned doctors to allow an
> observer to imagine that might be a true description.
> 
> So let's respect Karen's question and get back to discussing the real
> reasons for an individual to pursue a PhD - for me, it is a thorough
> preparation for anybody who wants to contribute to the enterprise of
> building our knowledge and it (should) give you the thinking skills to
> hold your own in a thinking community. As a bonus, it could help you get
> a job, as has been described.
> 
> It is also a risky venture, not everybody completes the gruelling
> course, some of those who do end up disillusioned, it may cost you a lot
> of money in fees, living costs and lost earnings. You may choose a
> university that does not give the support you need, you may choose a
> research topic (or have one chosen for you) that turns out to be
> uninteresting or unproductive. So you need to go into it with your eyes
> open and, while you may start with Karen's question ("will it get me a
> job that I want?") you have to move on quickly to the much bigger one
> of, "What questions interest me so much that I will spend several years
> of low paid or unpaid work to investigate?"
> 
> Best
> Chris
> 
> ********************
> Professor Chris Rust
> Head of Art and Design Research Centre
> Sheffield Hallam University
> Psalter Lane, S11 8UZ, UK
> +44 114 225 2706 (direct)
> +44 114 225 2686 (research admin)
> [log in to unmask]
> www.chrisrust.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Friedman wrote:
>> Dear Chris,
>> 
>> Recycling is important in this age of sustainability. I'm not sure
>> that the argument is circular, though.
>> 
>> Perhaps I should have said research education -- including PhD
>> supervision -- is one area of responsibility in the context of
>> university-level research training. It may be that I abbreviated this.
>> 
>> On the other hand, the argument seems to be clear. We require
>> physicians to study medicine with professional physicians. Most chefs
>> learn the chef's profession by working with a master chef, including
>> the many arts that a chef must master in addition to cooking. My
>> argument is that one masters the profession of research by studying
>> under the supervision of a master.
>> 
>> Despite my possibly problematic turn of phrase, I'd have to go with
>> David's comments. As David noted, it is no more circular to suggest
>> that future research professionals master research skills under the
>> supervision of a master than to suggest that designers study
>> professional design practice with designers.
>> 
>> But I'll go farther than that. The PhD admits one to the university
>> guild of research scholars. The word "university" does not mean a
>> place where we study all things. It derives from the Latin word
>> "universitas," a word that means a society, company, corporation, or a
>> community regarded as a collective whole. To join the university was,
>> in essence, to join a guild of masters and scholars. In the practice
>> of the guild, the PhD degree was the license to teach in any
>> university in Europe. Today, the degree serves much the same purpose.
>> 
>> Most guild oaths require that full-fledged guild masters teach their
>> skills to new guild members as part of their professional responsibility.
>> 
>> We still have records on one of the earliest oaths for admission to a
>> professional guild, the Hippocratic Oath . The new-made physician
>> swore "To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents
>> and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of
>> money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as
>> equal to my brothers and to teach them this art - if they desire to
>> learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and
>> oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons
>> of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the
>> covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no
>> one else."
>> 
>> The guild oath required teaching the arts of the guild as part of the
>> professional responsibility of a guild member. If research is a
>> professional practice in the university guild, then it is not circular
>> argument that makes PhD supervision an aspect of research
>> responsibility. Teaching and supervising research students is defined
>> historically as a responsibility of guild membership.
>> 
>> In answering you, I didn't really plan on discussing the history of
>> PhD supervision as a research responsibility. It's probably better to
>> go with David on this and say that good research supervisors need a
>> strong foundation in solid research skills.
>> 
>> The best way to get that foundation is to study in a good PhD program
>> under the supervision of a strong researcher who also had a good
>> supervisor for his or her own PhD. There are exceptions to this -- you
>> are an exception. But how many Chris Rusts do we have? With the
>> intense and growing demand for research teachers and PhD supervision,
>> we've either got to speed up cloning technology or build better and
>> stronger PhD programs to meet the need for properly trained research
>> supervisors.
>> 
>> Yours,
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Ken Friedman wrote:
>>>>> the PhD is required for positions that entail research
>>>>> responsibility.........One area of research responsibility is PhD
>>>>> supervision.<<
>>> 
>>> If anybody wanted a watertight argument against getting a PhD then
>>> here it is folks, and direct from the maestro!
>>> 
>>> Sorry Ken, couldn't resist it.
>>> 
>>> Love
>>> Chris
>> 
>> 

Dr Catherine Harper
Reader in Textiles / Research Coordinator
Editor UK, Textile: The Journal of Cloth and Culture

University College for the Creative Arts at Epsom
Ashley Road
Epsom KT18 5BE

Tel.     0044 (0) 1372 202204
Email    [log in to unmask]
Web      www.ucreative.ac.uk