medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Recent writers on the sex of the trinity include Gavin D'Costa, Luce
Irigaray, and Von Balthasar. (sorry this is not medieval)
Quoting Rob Howe <[log in to unmask]>:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> I wasn't saying either of those things. I was referring to what
> another
> writer was saying, as it is provocative and interesting.
>
> C. S. Lewis's reasoning has on occasion been called misogynistic as
> one
> interpretation of it would be to say that, as masculinity is what God
> is
> like, then those who are more masculine are more Godly. So, as men
> are more
> masculine than women in general, they are more Godly. In order for
> that to
> be misogynistic, one has to equate, or at least conflate, feminine
> with
> female/woman, and masculine with male/man. As I understand Lewis, he
> takes
> pains to avoid doing that. He also states unambiguously that for
> practical
> purposes, the masculinity of a man is as feminine as that of a woman
>
> compared to that of God. I also think that his world-view was such
> that
> feminine did not arise by virtue of being ungodly, but that a
> complimentarity was instilled into the universe at creation, and that
> both
> masculine and feminine, being transcendent concepts, are not to do
> with
> "fallen" or "Godly" ideas.
>
> Lewis explores the transcendent thing in "The Great Divorce", where
> the
> people arriving at "heaven" (?) find themselves to be insubstantial
> in
> comparison to the "realness" of the place. They are as thin as air,
> compared
> to the place. He has the idea that transcendence is actually
> super-real, as
> in ultra-real, or highly real (not just "beyond real" or "above
> real"). It
> would not be so much that the universe *is* feminine, but rather that
>
> compared to the transcendent, it is so illusorily and scarcely
> masculine as
> for the difference between feminine and masculine in the base to be
> irrelevant, compared to the difference between the transcendent and
> the
> base. It's a slightly difficult (sophistrous?) tightrope for him to
> walk
> isn't it?
>
> The quote I provided was more with relation to feminine and masculine
> (and
> angels as per the thread, although it was from fictional/allegorical
>
> writing), and not about God Himself. The obvious flaw in Lewis
> stating that
> God is transcendent masculine such as to femininise all of creation,
> is that
> it seems to circumscribes the all-being nature of such a God (God is
>
> incapable of being feminine). I don't believe he offered an
> explanation of
> that.
>
> That said, I have no idea whether Lewis, or anyone else for that
> matter, has
> explored gendering of all the persons of the Trinity itself. I
> wondered
> whether Lewis's ideas were derived from earlier orthodox (with a
> small "o")
> beliefs, as he tended to state unequivocally that his theology was
> never
> novel, and was always rooted in tradition. Needless to say, also,
> that Lewis
> propounded a God of distinct "personhood", and railed against a "sea
> of
> spirit" interpretation of God. It is easier to impute a
> characteristic such
> as a gender to a person than to a sea of spirit.
>
> I have no views on the matter personally, but was sharing an idea
> which has
> been expressed in order to open discussion - I hope that is
> appreciated on
> this list.
>
> Rob Howe.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eliana Corbari" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [M-R] angels and gender
>
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
> >
> > Dear Rob
> >
> > if you are saying that transcendentally God is masculine and
> creation
> > is feminine, are you also implying that, at a transcendental
> level,
> > masculine is perfect and feminine imperfect? What do you think
> are
> > the implications your interpretation?
> >
> >
> > Quoting Rob Howe <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> >> culture
> >>
> >> Courtesy of C. S. Lewis in "Perelandra / Vogage to Venus". He
> argued
> >> in this
> >> book that all men, and all the universe, by comparison to God's
> >> masculinity
> >> (not maleness) is feminine (not female); a principle of
> transcendence
> >>
> >> explored more fully in general in "The Great Divorce". Is this
> >> grounded in
> >> patristic/Bilical teaching?
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------
> > e. corbari
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
>
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>
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