medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Not to quibble, John. Pax! tom ault
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 06:20:01 -0500
John Dillon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>
> Er, not quite, Tom. You had said "that survived antiquity well"; I
>took
> "well" to mean a generally good state of preservation, not a
> ready-for-use one. If Rome's Flavian Amphitheatre doesn't meet that
> standard, the amphitheatres at Nimes and at Arles, both of which I
> mentioned and both in use today, certainly do. They've lost a lot
>of
> their decor, but so have the Maison Carrée and the Pantheon and the
> church in Syracuse. "Monumental architecture" and "buildings" are
>not
> mutually exclusive categories, but if by "building" you imply a
> limitation to structures with functional space(s), then certainly
>the
> surviving Roman arches (whether triumphal or municipal) have
>functional
> space in their passageways. The Tour Magne at Nimes, a Roman tower,
>is
> also certainly a building (and I don't really think of it as
>monumental
> architecture either). There may be no "intact" theatre left (I note
> again a shift in formulation from your previous message) but the one
>in
> Bosra seems to have survived "well" nonetheless. Since this is
>perhaps
> not as well known to others on this list as are the other structures
> mentioned so far, here's a view:
> http://www.flat3.co.uk/levant/pages/990201.htm
>
> Your previous temporal formulation was "that survived antiquity".
> But
> now you say "There is no intact theatre left, ... Oh, yes and a
>few
> bridges...which are still used, thus maintianed". As if survival
>until
> today and survival into the Middle Ages were one and the same thing.
> At
> the end of antiquity there were other theatres left besides the one
>at
> Bosra (even today there are others, though not as well preserved)
>and
> there were many bridges, not just a few. Again, the Porta Nigra
>lasted
> until the eleventh century before being converted to a Christian
>church;
> during the sixth through tenth centuries it will have been an
>example of
> a surviving Roman secular structure not converted to Christian cult
>use.
>
> What I termed "extravagant" was your generalization that "the
>ancient
> [specimens of] architecture" to have "survived antiquity well were
>the
> temples that Christians rededicated as churces". Even today there's
>a
> fair amount of secular architecture from Roman antiquity that's
>survived
> well, if not excellently; another possibly less familiar example,
>cited
> as a reminder that military architecture is nonetheless
>architecture,
> are the Roman walls of Lugo:
> http://www.redtailcanyon.com/items/13591.aspx
>
> Literary and archeological evidence of the survival into the Middle
>Ages
> of instances of Roman secular architecture is abundant. That most
>of it
> hasn't survived well over the succeeding centuries proves your point
> about maintenance (with which latter I think few would wish to
> disagree). As does also the fact that most of the instances of
>secular
> architecture that did survive for any length of time after antiquity
>did
> so because people continued to find uses for them. Religious
>structures
> are not the only ones capable of being repurposed.
>
> Best again,
> John Dillon
>
> PS: I have no desire to go looking for buildings still in use that
>are
> older than the temple that was turned into Syracuse's cathedral.
> But,
> in case you would find this useful, there's a similar instance at
> Agrigento that's just about as old: the so-called Temple of Concord
> (converted to a Christian church in late antiquity and deconsecrated
>in
> 1788):
> http://www.arnoneeditore.com/images/ag_con.jpg
>For an account of how this Doric temple was modified for Christian
>cult
> use, see:
> http://www.aaa-agrigento.it/html/vallei.htm
> s.v. "Tempio della Concordia".
> Compare that to the Syracusan example, duscussed here:
> http://tinyurl.com/25vbg
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