medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Yes, I found that and groaned. But I continued searching and found this on a
website that explains Josephian (is that a word?) iconography:
One of the traditional symbols always associated with Saint Joseph is a
staff topped with a lily. Church tradition tells us that Joseph was
miraculously singled out in a group of potential suitors for Mary when his
staff flowered into a lily. The miracle recalls the words of Isaiah: "A
shoot shall come out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of
his roots," alluding to the linkage between the coming Messiah and the line
of King David. [Isaiah 11:1]
The only source given is "Church tradition." I know the tradition well since
I am almost as old as the Church itself.
MG
>From: Larry Swain <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [M-R] Saint Joseph/lily/chastity
>Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 14:28:32 -0700
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> The text you refer to is the Protevangelium Jacobi,
>the Proto-Gospel of James. But this gospel says that
>out of Joseph's rod came a dove that rested on his
>head, not lilies, so is likely not the source of the
>icongraphy for Joseph.
>
>As for the "chastity" of Joseph, it almost certainly
>derives from the position that Joseph didn't ever have
>sexual relations with Mary, and if I recall my Jerome
>correctly, didn't have children according to that
>worthy because the reference to "brothers" and
>"sisters" of Jesus refers to "cousins", not brothers
>or half-brothers as the Protoevangelium tradition has
>it.
>
>Larry Swain
>
>--- Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> > religion and culture
> >
> > First, chastity and virginity are not synonymous. If
> > I may get personal, I
> > am a chaste married woman. Second, I *believe* Saint
> > Joe is depicted with a
> > lily because some apocryphal work/legend states that
> > he was chosen as Mary's
> > husband because, of all her suitors, he had the
> > staff/walking stick
> > (something made of wood) that miraculously sprouted
> > lilies and this
> > designated him as God's choice for Mary. I'm, as
> > always, ready to stand
> > corrected.
> > MG
> >
> > >From: John Wickstrom <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions
> > of medieval religious
> > > culture
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: [M-R] saints who were fathers?
> > >Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 13:15:20 -0400
> > >
> > >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> > medieval religion and culture
> > >
> > >I wonder if this is correct. My recollection is
> > that Joseph is often
> > >depicted (late medieval, modern images?) as holding
> > a lily, symbol of his
> > >chastity. The strong idea in the middle ages of the
> > Virgin's chastity
> > >likely
> > >extended to Joseph. The meaning of biblical
> > references to the "brothers" of
> > >Jesus continues to be argued: whether this means
> > biological siblings or
> > >"relatives". Traditionally Catholics argue the
> > latter while Protestants
> > >and
> > >secular scholars tend towards the former.
> > >JBW
> > >
> > >
> > >John B. Wickstrom
> > >Kalamazoo College
> > >[log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of
> > medieval religious
> > >culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> > Behalf Of Bill East
> > >Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 5:19 AM
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: [M-R] saints who were fathers?
> > >
> > >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> > medieval religion and culture
> > >
> > >--- "John B. Wickstrom" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
> > medieval religion and
> > > > culture
> > > >
> > > > St Joseph? Well, his status as a biological
> > father is still argued
> > > > among
> > > > scholars and religious traditions, right?
> > > > JBW
> > >
> > >I was referring to his other children. Whether or
> > not, as a matter of
> > >historical fact, he had any, he is certainly
> > regarded in medieval
> > >tradition as having had children by a former
> > marriage; and that gets
> > >him into the list of saints who were fathers.
> > >
> > >Bill.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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