medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
To all those who replied to my query,
Thank you so much. You have given me much to think about. I agree with V.
Kerry Inman that the answer probably doesn't end at the Gospel of Nicodemus.
I need to look at the literary tradition of the harrowing of hell in Iberia
before I can draw any conclusions...
Again, thanks for the help,
Alexandra
On 6/4/05 2:14, "John Dillon" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Oh, no, you're reading _a_ right Gospel of Nicodemus. As I said, there
> are lots of versions; it was just the texts I happened on briefly just
> before I wrote, and not all texts, that don't name the patriarchs.
> These were brief, as is also Sannazaro's passage in the _De Partu Virginis_.
>
> Given the variety of ways in which the patriarchs are presented in
> depictions or in verbal accounts of the harrowing, it seems clear that
> for a writer the decision to individuate one or more of them (either by
> naming or in some other fashion) was often a matter of choice. Ferrer,
> one would think, didn't have to name the patriarchs in his sermon.
> Several possible reasons for his having done so other than the one that
> Alexandra has suggested come to mind, e.g., the use of specific detail
> to vivify the account or the use of certain names because Ferrer liked
> to say them. Whatever the actual reasons will have been, these are now
> unverifiable. But Alexandra's suggestion that the Hebrew names will
> have had special significance for Jews in the audience is certainly
> worth considering as part of the sermon's likely effect, regardless of
> Ferrer's unrecoverable though not unguessable rationale.
>
> Best again
> John Dillon
>
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 0:01 am, Marjorie Greene wrote:
>
>> Perhaps I'm not reading the right Gospel of Nicodemus, but in:
>> http://www.ricter.com/wordline/nicod2.htm
>> I found Adam (much mentioned), David, Esaias, Habacuc, Micheas,
>> Enoch, Elias
>> (of Chariot of Fire fame), and the Good Thief all playing roles in the
>> Harrowing of Hell sequence.
>> MG
>>
>>> From: Alexandra Guerson de Oliveira <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
>> religious> culture <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [M-R] Vicent Ferrer & Resurrection of Jesus
>>> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:51:02 -0400
>>>
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture>
>>> That's interesting. I wonder if Ferrer is adapting the story to
>> include the
>>> patriarchs so he could reach the Jews who were no doubt part of his
>>> audience... I wonder if this has any history in apologetic
>> writings...>
>>> Alexandra
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/4/05 18:29, "John Dillon" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>>>
>>>> This is from the _Descensus ad Inferos_ (DI; the "Harrowing of
>> Hell")> > in the _Evangelium Nicodemi_ to which Patricia referred.
>> There are
>>>> lots of different versions: for a survey, see Zbigniew
>> Izydorczyk, "The
>>>> _Evangelium Nicodemi_ in the Latin Middle Ages," in idem, ed.,
>> _The> > Medieval Gospel of Nicodemus: Texts, Intertexts, and
>> Contexts in
>>>> Western Europe_ (Tempe, AZ: MRTS, 1997), pp. 21-101 (versions
>> in other
>>>> languages are treated elsewhere in this volume).
>>>>
>>>> While you were answering Patricia I quickly read some English-
>> language> > translations of DI texts on-line and found none that
>> named the
>>>> patriarchs, etc. The treatment I'm most familiar with, Sannazaro,
>>>> _DPV_ 1. 225ff., names none and identifies David (by attribute)
>> only> > because S. puts a major prophetic speech into D.'s mouth.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> John Dillon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2005, at 4:37 pm, Alexandra Guerson de
>> Oliveira> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I'm working on a paper on Vicent Ferrer's sermons and I came
>>>>> across an
>>>>> interesting story of Christ's resurrection. On an Easter
>> Sunday sermon
>>>>> Ferrer weaves passages from the Psalms to demonstrate how
>> Christ's> >> resurrection had been desired by not only the saints
>> and the
>>>>> angels but also
>>>>> by all the main Jewish patriarchs and Old Testament leaders.
>> Among> >> those who
>>>>> begged Christ to resurrect, Ferrer lists Matusalem, Melquisedec,
>>>>> Abraham,Isaac, Jacob, Aaron "& the holy priests", David "with the
>>>>> other holy kings
>>>>> and princes" . Even the women are not forgotten: Eve, Sarah &
>>>>> Rebbeca are
>>>>> also said to have asked Christ to rise again and intercede for
>>>>> them. In the
>>>>> end, it is Jesus's resurrection that opens the gates of heaven
>>>>> (which of
>>>>> course had been closed when Adam & Eve were kicked out) to these
>>>>> illustriouspersonages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does any of this sound familiar? I'm wondering where Ferrer
>> took this
>>>>> particular story from...
>>>>
>>>>
>> **********************************************************************
>
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