medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I guess Franz Lackner might have sent his response concerning the two
different editions of the PL off-list but it was already quite enlightening:
"nach der Clavis patrum latinorum Nr. 143 gibt es zwei Ausgaben der PL
mit der Expositio. Demnach beginnt in der einen die Expositio evangelii
secundum Lucam mit Spalte 1527, in der anderen mit Spalte 1607.
Vielleicht liegt hier der Schlussel zur Losung des Problems."
I tried to simply subtract 80 columns since I have the edition starting with
1607 and at least that gets me into a section of the expositio which is
closer to what I am looking for. I still haven't found my quote though...
Reading Latin is ok if I don't have to read 20 pages at a time... at some
point my mind just seems to wander off...
I tried to obtain a different, more recent edition of the text but there was
nothing available here at our library (I'm not even sure there IS an edition
prepared by Sources Chretiennes or the CCSL). I know that there is a
computer readable version of the PL out there, but we don't have it here.
Wouldn't it be great to be able to do a couple of word searches and then
save a lot of time and energy? I usually advise my students and everyone
else that it is always worth doing a trip to the library but in this case I
am getting a little tired here.
I did not know the paper by Pamela Loos-Noji on the Umilta website. Thank
you for the link! This is most interesting, since I am in fact writing about
cross-dressing women and Eugenia in particular. Great. The down-side of it
is that I also read the article by Bullough and am aware that he uses the
quote, too. Well, this might just be another case of 'sometimes it is worth
double-checking your sources'.
Unfortunately, the Med-Text link did not work. I'll try again in a moment.
Thanks at any rate for all your kind suggestions. I hope I'll work something
out. Maybe the colleagues in the history department have a computer-readable
version of the PL? One might be lucky.
Sandra
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Robert
Kraft
Sent: 30 March 2005 19:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Ambrosius in the PL
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Perhaps not very helpful, but a google search uncovers the following online
publication that refers to your passage --
http://www.umilta.net/equal5.html
St Ambrose wrote that "she who does not believe is woman . . . she who
believes
progresses to complete manhood,"\31
Unfortunately, note 31 cites an intermediate source:
31 Quoted, Vern Bullough, "Transvestites in the Middle Ages, in Sex, Society
and
History (New York: Science History Publications, 1976), pp. 61-62.
Bob Kraft
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> I have no suggestions regarding the PL, it is exactly this sort of problem
that puts me off even attempting to use it. I suspect, however, that
Ambrose's commentary is available in a number of more recent editions, which
might even have topic indexes. Between CCSL and Sources chritiens nearly
everything seem to have edited at least once - maybe try there?
>
> Julian Hendrix
>
> On Mar 30 2005, Sandra Lowerre wrote:
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
> >
> > I have trouble finding a Latin quote by Ambrose in the Patrologia
> > Latina. Somewhere in the vast pile of paper I created while writing
> > excerpts for my thesis I noted "Cf Ambrose, she who believes progresses
> > to complete manhood, to the measure of the adulthood of Christ.
Ambrose,
> > Expositio evangeliis secundum lucam in PL 15.1844." Now I checked the
PL,
> > volume 15, column 1844 and it says nothing about the manhood of Christ.
I
> > had trouble with these references to the PL before, when sometimes
people
> > refer to the column and sometimes to the numbered chapters running
> > through the text. In this case, it can't be the number given in the text
> > because 1844 is not part of the Expositio evangeliis secundum lucam. Has
> > anyone ever come across similar problems?
> >
> > Thanks a lot for any suggestions,
> >
> > Sandra Lowerre
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
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--
Robert A. Kraft, Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania
227 Logan Hall (Philadelphia PA 19104-6304); tel. 215 898-5827
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