medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Hi, Rochelle
On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 3:47 pm, you wrote:
> You mean on the order of San Ambroggio in Milan??
> The floor plan does have more or less the form...
Well, I didn't specify Christian and in fact that's not what I had in
mind. What I had in mind was one version of the Roman basilica with its
semi-circular apse off a basically rectangular building. The basilica
in the legionary camp at Laudun is an excellent example of the general form:
http://ville-laudun.fr/img/patrim/cesar/basilik.jpg
but not of the version of which I was thinking, where the apse comes off
a short wall. For that, cf. the Constantinian basilica at Trier:
http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/109images/Early_Christian/Missorium/Trier_Baslica_int.jpg
TinyURL for this: http://tinyurl.com/4ahvj
That's pretty close in outline to the object you showed:
http://www.hamsa.com/hamsa_jewish_gold_jewelry/PMC-G_menorah_300.html
Of course, as is well known, the form was indeed adopted in Christian
churches. But we don't have to come down nearly as far in time as
Sant'Ambrogio in Milan for examples. Cf. Santa Sabina in Rome:
http://www.op.org/international/assets/images/Curia/santa_sabina1.jpg
or these less impressive specimens:
http://198.62.75.1/www1/ofm/fai/FAIexp01.gif
(some construction on one side of the apse)
and
http://www.athenapub.com/novae3.htm
But the form's use by Christians doesn't make it essentially Christian.
> That would be a fine explanation for Christian markers
> and internal/external architectural features, but it would
> not explain the appearance on Jewish grave markers and
> internal/external architectural features.
True. But my comment wasn't offered to explain these. In fact, it
wasn't offered as an explanation at all. What I said was:
"The outline is that of a very common form of single-apsed basilica.
Just in case no one had noticed."
If the floor plans of some single-apsed basilicas are similar in
outline, then perhaps the literature on these might be a place to go
hunting for a suuitable descriptive term.
> And as I said, when
> incised (actually excised writing area then incised) in the
> body of the marker -- Christian or Jewish --, the three are
> all the same height and size. Then a stylized version shows
> up on Moslem grave markers....
The application of this to the outline of the figure you showed at
http://www.hamsa.com/hamsa_jewish_gold_jewelry/PMC-G_menorah_300.html
escapes me.
> Then, there is the problem that the oldest single-apse
> basilicas had "square" shoulders, that is, the round
> extension simply meets the wall of the main structure
> squarely.
I don't see what's problematic about that. The figure you showed also
has square shoulders.
> I think we've run into the need for a neutral,
> generally applicable designation.
No disagreement here. But as no one has suggested a non-neutral
designation, I don't see your rationale in saying this.
> The apse in Greco/Roman temples was squared off and
> /within /the temple.. The basilica is /without/ the structure--
> a round extension to house the apse -- with a raised dias and
> a railing to separate the leader/priest from the congregation.
> The early Christians incorporated many of the symbols of the
> J'lem temple.
I don't see the pertinence of Greek-Roman temples. Why bring them up?
> In any case, the "bimah," or raised place where the leader of a
> congregation stood -- behind a railing -- was within a round
> apse extending outwards from the main structure. A third century
> Synagogue on AEgina (not on-line, saw in person have photos) --
> or rather the mosaic floor is what's left and is in surprisingly
> good condition -- is an exellent example of a single round apse
> with "square" shoulders.
>
> While the single round arch (which is why the apse is a rounded
> architectural external projection) dates back to Sumer/Akkad and
> Egypt -- with different symbolism on each side of the ANE --, I
> have not been able to find examples of the double round arch before
> the 3rd-2nd BCE -- and that in Ptolemaic Egypt. I don't think we can
> classify the two Assyrian side-by-side round god-symbols on the tablet
> from Sippar as a double arch... In Syriac iconography, the triple
> archsymbolizes the Synoptic Gospels, so obviouosly cannot be found
> BCE.
> It's really very involved and intertwined. Under the circs, I hope
> you will not be offended if I think it would be best to use round
> shouldered -- it's neutral and applies to Jewish, Christian, and
> Moslem artifacts and architecture.
Not having offered a term that one might use, I can hardly be offended
by your adoption of "round-shouldered". Though, if you're using
"shoulder" to describe the corners of the outline from which the curved
element projects, this term doesn't seem particularly accurate.
Best,
John Dillon
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